Spirituality
30 Apr 22
@divegeester saidI'm sorry, who are you again? Unless you and FMF are the same person under
Stop dodging the little question which challenges your beliefs 😄
FMF was saved and fell away through loss of faith.
What’s so hard about that for you to understand?
different names, my questions are to him, not you. What makes you a Christian? Do
you do good works, so it's by your efforts? Do you know where to say amen in a
church service and believe the right things, and go to church at the right place? Do
you worship on the right day?
06 May 22
@kellyjay saidI have been very clear and very explicit and I have done this on my own terms and in my own words. I am not dancing around.
It is a clarification of what transpired people can define words anyway they want which until the details are clarified what is said or claimed really is ambiguous. For you if it was only a matter of changing your mind why are you dancing around? If it was something else that transcends what you once thought why are you always comparing what you think with others?
06 May 22
@kellyjay saidWell, if you are acknowledging that I once had faith, much like you do, and that I lost that faith and that I am now an agnostic atheist, if that is what you are realizing and accepting, then you are right to do so.
So what you once thought true you are now convinced was never true, you changed your mind.
06 May 22
@fmf saidI acknowledge you once claimed to be a Christian and what you thought you had
Well, if you are acknowledging that I once had faith, much like you do, and that I lost that faith and that I am now an agnostic atheist, if that is what you are realizing and accepting, then you are right to do so.
was Christ, and now you deny it all as being true and relevant to your life now. You
may have called yourself a Christian because you believed you did good works, went
to the right church, said the magic prayer of accepting the Lord, or maybe you hung
out with Christians who were doing Christian things. So you once claimed to believe,
then you changed your mind. To be a Christian requires Christ, so either He was in
your life or was not.
06 May 22
@kellyjay saidI used to be a Christian - like you are - with firm Christian faith - like the faith you have - and then I lost that faith and now I am an agnostic atheist.
I acknowledge you once claimed to be a Christian and what you thought you had
was Christ, and now you deny it all as being true and relevant to your life now.
My life experience as a Christian, the experiential knowledge I have gained from having and acting upon faith, and the very real effect of all this on my outlook and on my moral compass, all have relevance in my life that I cannot and do not "deny".
@kellyjay saidI was a Christian. I had Christian faith. You are desperate to reach through your computer and change the realities of someone's life history.
You
may have called yourself a Christian because you believed you did good works, went
to the right church, said the magic prayer of accepting the Lord, or maybe you hung
out with Christians who were doing Christian things.
06 May 22
@kellyjay saidI know what your faith regarding Christ is, just as I know what my faith regarding Christ was.
To be a Christian requires Christ, so either He was in
your life or was not.
I believed that "Christ was in [my] life" just as you believe He is in yours.
I know to be a Christian "requires Christ", because I know, full well, what the tenets of your faith are.
But, Christians asserting that "to be a Christian requires Christ" [in some supernatural way beyond their own cognition] and that Christ is "in" them [in some supernatural way] does not make these claims pertain to "objective facts".
06 May 22
@kellyjay saidThis is a public forum, a public discussion, so never mind all the jazz handed countermeasures kellyjay , just address my question please
I'm sorry, who are you again? Unless you and FMF are the same person under
different names, my questions are to him, not you. What makes you a Christian? Do
you do good works, so it's by your efforts? Do you know where to say amen in a
church service and believe the right things, and go to church at the right place? Do
you worship on the right day?
FMF was saved and fell away through loss of faith.
What’s so hard about that for you to understand?
@kellyjay saiddivegeester is a Christian friend of mine out there in civvy street too. He and I have spent literally 100s of hours, over many years, probably more than a thousand hours, talking about all matters relevant to faith and belief and all manner of other things too.
I'm sorry, who are you again? Unless you and FMF are the same person under
different names, my questions are to him, not you.
He understands what faith is and I understand his. Furthermore, he understands what loss of faith is.
I cannot quite figure out if you are pretending not to understand faith/loss of faith for ideological reasons - and because you are engaged in some kind of virtue signalling/ willy waving about your own faith [in which case, surely, what you are posting is not 100% for my consumption]...
Or whether you just have an intellectual problem understanding the nature of faith, generally, and your own faith, and the implications of a loss of faith...
In which case, you'd do well to engage divegeester, for your own benefit, and also because what you are doing is making you seem furtive and insecure.
@divegeester saidOnce KellyJay has established how much more rock hard and meaningful his faith is [at least in his own mind and perhaps in the minds of Christian bystanders] compared to what mine was in 1980, 1984, 1988, 1992, 1996, 2000... perhaps he will propose an actual LITERAL willy-waving contest and he and I will have to get our penises out and see whose is bigger?
Your life experience doesn’t fit with his rigid mindset and belief structure.
Here it is again just in case the previous one gets deleted for using the word [REDACTED]
Once KellyJay has established how much more rock hard and meaningful his faith is [at least in his own mind and perhaps in the minds of Christian bystanders] compared to what mine was in 1980, 1984, 1988, 1992, 1996, 2000... perhaps he will propose an actual LITERAL willy-waving contest and he and I will have to get our willies out and see whose is bigger?
06 May 22
@fmf saidKellyJay is “hardcore saved” (I’ll trademark that later).
Here it is again just in case the previous one gets deleted for using word [REDACTED]
Once KellyJay has established how much more rock hard and meaningful his faith is [at least in his own mind and perhaps in the minds of Christian bystanders] compared to what mine was in 1980, 1984, 1988, 1992, 1996, 2000... perhaps he will propose an actual LITERAL willy-waving contest and he and I will have to get our willies out and see whose is bigger?
You were only “softcore saved”, you didn’t love Jesus enough, you weren’t born again enough and you didn’t believe the right dogmas…enough.
You were a “tare”.
06 May 22
@fmf saidSo either Christ was in you or not, that is not a mental acceptance of something
I used to be a Christian - like you are - with firm Christian faith - like the faith you have - and then I lost that faith and now I am an agnostic atheist.
My life experience as a Christian, the experiential knowledge I have gained from having and acting upon faith, and the very real effect of all this on my outlook and on my moral compass, all have relevance in my life that I cannot and do not "deny".
written down in the Bible, that is the life of God within you. If all you ever had was
some doctrinal agreement with me that is nothing! Jesus said not only was He the
only way to God He is also life, either the life of God was in you or not. You have
an opinion, you changed your mind, that is not the life of Christ in you, that is you
always was, is, and will be outside of having the life of God in you.