12 Jul 10
Originally posted by SwissGambit"Spirituality is not limited to theistic belief. There is no disconnect."
I like this quote:Spirituality can refer to an ultimate or immaterial reality;[1] an inner path enabling a person to discover the essence of their being; or the “deepest values and meanings by which people live.”[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality
1 Ewert Cousins, preface to Antoine Faivre and Jacob Needleman, Modern Esote ...[text shortened]... Blackwell 2007 p. 1-2
Spirituality is not limited to theistic belief. There is no disconnect.
Disconnect Analogy: Suppose a critical life or death condition has been identified in preliminary diagnosis and that prognosis is dim without the timely intervention of a professional neurosurgeon. Patient's sense of self preservation and the need for action are mildly aroused. Time passes. Eventually the patient begins reading through the yellow pages of phone books but to no avail. Apparently looking in many interesting though wrong places, all the distracted patient is able to find are lists of professional historians, popular philosophy professors, experienced plumbers, well published poets, party clowns... an 'inner path' to nowhere.
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12 Jul 10
1 edit
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Please analyze this...
"Please analyze this one issue: the seeming disconnect in play on a popular cyberspace
spirituality forum, in which an overwhelming majority of active posters profess atheism."
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Second issue:
"Why all the false focus and frenzied fixation on denominations, given the fact that independent local assemblies
were established for the sake of geographic convenience in the early church? Practical format hasn't changed."
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Third Issue:
Why would anybody summarily refuse a unique free gift without strings attached? Why would any thinking person presume to exit a jet to push in an attempt to help the pilot? Why would any civilized person decline desired second helpings at a dinner party (on the assumption the host/hostess hadn't already planned/provided more than enough to go around) and display lack of manners and social poise in the process? Why would any mature person invited to a fine restaurant by a generous friend ever become so thoughtless as to offer to cover the gratuity, delivering an insult and revealing an incipient guilt trip in progress? Religion is man by his own effort attempting to gain God's approval. Christianity is God having already done the work on our behalf.
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12 Jul 10
2 edits
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyI'm sure your third one crops up all over the shop...last time I saw it was courtesy of FreakyKBH:
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Please analyze this...
"Please analyze this one issue: the seeming disconnect in play on a popular cyberspace
spirituality forum, in which an overwhelming majority of active posters profess atheism."
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Second issue:
"Why all t ehalf.
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http://www.redhotchess.com/board/showthread.php?subject=Fearful_Unbelief&threadid=130069
No one is being *offered* the "free gift" you mention, more it is expected they make a particular choice of which "free gift" they like best (your religion isn't the only 'truth' in town) and supplement their application for it with gratuitous arse kissing & affirmations of loyalty. There is also the fear one may lose said gift before it even arrives.
12 Jul 10
Originally posted by PinkFloydCan you give statistics on that?
There are far more theists than atheists in the world. The atheists are just louder.
Can you also give statistics on those who would frequent a chess site? Its my understanding that statistically atheism is more frequent with both higher IQ and intelligence.
12 Jul 10
Originally posted by Agerg"There is also the fear one may lose said gift before it even arrives."
I'm sure your third one crops up all over the shop...last time I saw it was courtesy of FreakyKBH:
http://www.redhotchess.com/board/showthread.php?subject=Fearful_Unbelief&threadid=130069
No one is being *offered* the "free gift" you mention, more it is expected they make a particular choice of which "free gift" they like best (your religion isn't the o ...[text shortened]... ons of loyalty. There is also the fear one may lose said gift before it even arrives.
He is perfect. His plan is perfect. Gift is secure. Incapable of being lost
because its permanency depends on Him and His promises, not on us.
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12 Jul 10
Originally posted by Grampy BobbySome atheists do want to discuss spiritual topics and see themselves as spiritual, others like me, do not think theism is a good thing in general and would like to:
Please analyze this one issue: the seeming disconnect in play on a popular cyberspace
spirituality forum, in which an overwhelming majority of active posters profess atheism.
1. convince others of the error of their ways.
2. understand why theists believe what they do.
3. Enjoy a good discussion / debate.
4. learn more about both theism and the arguments for and against it.
I'd say 3. is actually the main reason for being here. I don't find many interesting topic in debates as they are largely about US politics which I don't know enough about - nor particularly care about.
The science forum is interesting, but rarely leads to debate.
12 Jul 10
Originally posted by twhitehead"3. Enjoy a good discussion / debate."
Some atheists do want to discuss spiritual topics and see themselves as spiritual, others like me, do not think theism is a good thing in general and would like to:
1. convince others of the error of their ways.
2. understand why theists believe what they do.
3. Enjoy a good discussion / debate.
4. learn more about both theism and the arguments for an ...[text shortened]... nor particularly care about.
The science forum is interesting, but rarely leads to debate.
Please know that I'm with you on that point, Twhit. Unfortunately, obtuse emotional
claims and morbid philosophical speculation usually generate more heat than light.
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12 Jul 10
1 edit
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyIf two groups of people have such different beliefs that they wont worship together then each group believes the other is seriously wrong in their method of worship and beliefs. That should be a major concern for everyone and a good reason for frenzied fixation. Not that I have seen much of that myself - it seems to be taken as normal by most people.
Why all the false focus and frenzied fixation on denominations, given the fact that independent local assemblies
were established for the sake of geographic convenience in the early church? Practical format hasn't changed.
I come from Livingstone a small all town of 100,000 people and there are approx 150 denominations.
Nearby, in Hwange in Zimbabwe (a tiny mining town) there is a street called Church St, that has about 7 Churches all in a row.
What do denominations tell us?
1. That interpreting the Bible is not a straight forward process, nor are all the other methods people claim to use to understand what God wants of them.
2. Beliefs are spread from person to person and a lot of significant beliefs are not directly from the Bible or God but passed down though Church organizations.
3. What you believe has more to do with who your parents were, where you grew up, and who you have associated with than anything else.
12 Jul 10
1 edit
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyWell I suppose I'd have to first believe in gods (I don't), and the premise that your particular notion of god which happens to be "perfect" (God is perfect does not follow from God exists) is the correct and only such entity before taking this response seriously.
[b]"There is also the fear one may lose said gift before it even arrives."
He is perfect. His plan is perfect. Gift is secure. Incapable of being lost
because its permanency depends on Him and His promises, not on us.
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12 Jul 10
Originally posted by twhiteheadFair question. Could well become another same ole worthless thread
And which category would you put this thread in?
rather than a crack of light breakthrough. Probably too early to tell.
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12 Jul 10
Originally posted by twhitehead========================================
Can you give statistics on that?
Can you also give statistics on those who would frequent a chess site? Its my understanding that statistically atheism is more frequent with both higher IQ and intelligence.
Can you give statistics on that?
Can you also give statistics on those who would frequent a chess site? Its my understanding that statistically atheism is more frequent with both higher IQ and intelligence.
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If God turns out to be a reality in the end on the day of judgment, do you feel that the guilty sinner with the higher IQ will have a better result ?
12 Jul 10
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillNo I don't. As far as I can tell from what Jesus said, it has more to do with how you treat others than you IQ (or belief for that matter), but then I don't know if you are asking about the possibility of Jesus's claims being reality, Pauls claims, your claims, or which possible (or impossible) reality you are referring to.
If God turns out to be a reality in the end on the day of judgment, do you feel that the guilty sinner with the higher IQ will have a better result ?
However, I did not say that atheists have a higher IQ, or theists have a lower IQ, merely that statistically there are more atheists in the higher IQ bracket and thus one might expect more than the average number of atheists on a chess site.
I might add that there is probably a higher percentage of atheists amongst the worlds population that has good internet access.