13 Jul 10
5 edits
Originally posted by twhitehead[/b] Concerning "the book of the life if the Lamb" (Rev. 13:8; 3:10; 20:15) you ask:
And how does ones name get in there?
So why is "Judgement day" so called? You haven't really mentioned any 'judgement' yet. Its all about names in books, being 'saved' prior to the event etc, yet your question was specifically about Judgement day and its outcome.
[b]I didn't know that IQ of participants was even recorded on this ChessAtWork site.[/ point out that being an English language website, we have more Christians than Muslims.
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And how does ones name get in there?
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You do know how to ask good questions.
I would not presume to know all the ways one's name is written by God in this "book of life". Perhaps, there are some ways unknown to me.
However, I am assured that if you receive Jesus, the Lamb of God, as your Savior, your name will be in the book of life. If you allow His life in the Holy Spirit to be dispensed into your heart, your name will be in the book of life.
Rather than explore exceptions which we may not be readily told, it behooves us to take the way which is quite obvious to us. Come to the Lamb of God for eternal life.
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So why is "Judgement day" so called? You haven't really mentioned any 'judgement' yet. Its all about names in books, being 'saved' prior to the event etc, yet your question was specifically about Judgement day and its outcome.
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There is more than one judgment. When I used phrase "the day of judgment" I was refering to the last judgment of the great white throne just before the eternal age commences.
I was not refering to one or two other judgments carried out by Christ before the beginning of the eternal age in Revelation 20.
Some people hope to spend much time hunting for little inconsistencies in God's plan of salvation. Perhaps they feel that if they can find "bugs" in the system here and there, then they can rest assured that these things are not real.
I think we should deal with what we know. I don't think it is wise to put off dealing with what we know for the sake of hunting for logical inconsistencies, program bugs, contradictions which will give us a comfortable feeling that these are all just faulty ideas of mankind's imagination.
I would not advize someone that they should ignore salvation in Christ because there conceivably may be some way his name would be included in the book of life apart from knowing Christ.
Besides all this, I think judgment is not the only viewpoint to understand why it is right that we should believe into Christ. To be a part of God's eternal purpose, we should want to be in Christ, associated with Christ.
When God is happy we are happy within. Often our own dissatisfaction and unrest is a reflection that God is not at rest as far as our hearts are concerned.
The satisfaction of God when He has saved us is reflected in our own joy. Because God is happy we also are happy.
13 Jul 10
6 edits
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyI see (???)...then why is he so quick to remove names who didn't believe there existed a gift in the first place, let alone acknowledge that one was being offered from this so-called book of life given he wants to "save my sorry arse"???
No, just your sorry arse and mine...
As I said earlier, I don't reject a free-gift, I reject the application procedure for a gift I am, with the evidence available to me, confident does not exist. Given my estimation of the upper bound for the amount of time I'll be existing (and aware of such existence) from this point onwards (less than thirty years), it would be foolish of me to waste this time pursuing dreams I find absurd.
A god that had anything in common with those proposed by most theists (omni-'awesomeness'😉 would know this, and so assuming it is the case I am wrong your god would indeed be spiteful for removing me from his book.
13 Jul 10
2 edits
Originally posted by Agerg"I see (???)...then why is he so quick to remove names who didn't believe..."
I see (???)...then why is he so quick to remove names who didn't believe there existed a gift in the first place, let alone acknowledge that one was being offered from this so-called book of life given he wants to "save my sorry arse"???
As I said earlier, I don't reject a free-gift, I reject the application procedure for a gift I am, with the evidence av t is the case I am wrong your god would indeed be spiteful for removing me from his book.
If you knew Him (second class conditional, and you sure as hell don't have a clue) you would know beyond a shadow of doubt that He isn't some sugary anything goes Santa Claus posing around for the helluva it in a fake beard but that His Righteousnesss, Justice and Grace are the countervailing poles of His Divine Integrity. He set timelines and doesn't mess around.
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13 Jul 10
5 edits
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyI don't take it as any sleight against my character or level of knowledge the implication I "sure as hell don't have a clue" because this is an accurate statement not only for me but for you also (unless of course you are equipped with an ability to detect the supernatural).
[b]"I see (???)...then why is he so quick to remove names who didn't believe..."
If you knew Him (second class conditional, and you sure as hell don't have a clue) you would know beyond a shadow of doubt that He isn't some sugary anything goes Santa Claus posing around for the helluva it in a fake beard but that His Righteousnesss, Justice and around.
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That your notion of god need not be nice isn't my concern if it is stated at the outset this is the case. It is you who is sugar coating your god and imposing upon non-believers the idea that it is all our fault we receive the fates you think are in store for us. I say if your god exists the fault lies squarely at it's metaphorical feet...not mine!
Also, please don't assume I have some deep rooted hostility towards your god and am venting out in a rebellious manner because honestly, truthfully, "God" is a meaningless word to me, and so I don't recognise as existant the entity you might propose I dislike.
I seek not to find your god but to discuss your third issue for analysis as an opponent of it (and if my dry point about saving paper earlier annoyed you then my apologies)
13 Jul 10
Originally posted by AgergYou're in well over your head, Agerg, and drowning with each stroke of your own keyboard
I don't take it as any sleight against my character or level of knowledge the implication I "sure as hell don't have a clue" because this is an accurate statement not only for me but for you also (unless of course you are equipped with an ability to detect the supernatural).
That your notion of god need not be nice isn't my concern if it is stated at the ou ...[text shortened]... t of it (and if my dry point about saving paper earlier annoyed you then my apologies)
without having provoked or annoyed anybody. Main issue is... you're sitting in darkness.
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13 Jul 10
1 edit
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyI am rubber you are glue.
You're in well over your head, Agerg, and drowning with each stroke of your own keyboard
without having provoked or annoyed anybody. Main issue is... you're sitting in darkness.
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13 Jul 10
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyMaybe some other time I'll go into why I left.
[b]"I tried the path of Christianity for 20 years. It just wasn't the right the right one for me."
How forthright, SG. Unsure which question to presume to ask... why did it sour or what have you found?
Edit: Let's play some chess later on this year.
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Sure, we can play a game or two if you want.
13 Jul 10
Originally posted by jaywillIt seems rather odd then that you and Grampy seem intent on writing pages and pages about salvation and how to obtain it but practically nothing about this great white throne that was the object of the original question. It feels like a bait and switch.
There is more than one judgment. When I used phrase "the day of judgment" I was refering to the last judgment of the great white throne just before the eternal age commences.
13 Jul 10
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyAnd your premise is simply the opposite.* If the premises are the disconnect (say, between a Christian and a Zen Buddhist), then it is precisely the premises that need analyzed. On a forum such as this, that analysis generally takes the form of argument.
Premise seems to suggest 'spirituality' is just another subjective effort or inward search
for relativistic values on a horizontal plane, rather than an absolute vertical connection.
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* Although I'm not sure that the "horizontal plane" is necessarily relativistic; the amount of "intramural" argument on here among theists about the nature of the "vertical plane" could lead an observer to suggest that that is relativistic as well, but I wouldn't think that's necessarily an apt description there either.
I always enjoy your posts, by the way.
13 Jul 10
1 edit
This matter of definitions—especially for such a slippery word as “spiritual”—will never be settled. And it is not new: the Stoics understood pneuma (and theos, for that matter) differently from the Christians, for example; and sometimes confusion is caused when folks from another tradition (such as Buddhism) attempt to translate their terms into conventional English.
Here is the (paltry) best that I can do at the moment:
Behind the dancing colors rendered
in the many facets of the mind:
clear light. Clear mind, clear Zen. And the dance
of many hues—needs nothing added.
13 Jul 10
Originally posted by AThousandYoungThat is true, but I don't believe things are as bad as all that. Billy Graham was quoted as saying that he believe about 10% of the people he had preached to and professed to be Christian would actually be in heaven when they died. Meaning no disrespect to Mr. Graham, I'm just not that pessimistic.
I think you'd be surprised how many "theists" are cultural theists only.
14 Jul 10
Originally posted by PinkFloydWhat does 'cultural theist' connote or mean within the realm of spirituality?
That is true, but I don't believe things are as bad as all that. Billy Graham was quoted as saying that he believe about 10% of the people he had preached to and professed to be Christian would actually be in heaven when they died. Meaning no disrespect to Mr. Graham, I'm just not that pessimistic.
14 Jul 10
Originally posted by twhitehead=============================
It seems rather odd then that you and Grampy seem intent on writing pages and pages about salvation and how to obtain it but practically nothing about this great white throne that was the object of the original question. It feels like a bait and switch.
It seems rather odd then that you and Grampy seem intent on writing pages and pages about salvation and how to obtain it but practically nothing about this great white throne that was the object of the original question. It feels like a bait and switch.
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It is pretty self explanatory. Just read it in Revelation 20.
Don't tell me that you are not told there what is essential to know.