29 Jun 11
Originally posted by Conrau KIt is certainly true that Jesus teaches his disciples to ask for what they need, Give us this day our daily bread, but I can't imagine Jesus instructing his disciples to pray for salary rises -- this is the same Jesus who asked his disciples to give up everything, let the dead bury the dead.
I see a lot wrong with it. First, the Scriptures, while teaching God's covenantal commitment of prosperity to his chosen people, equally teaches that the path to God involves suffering and hardship. Take, for example, the wandering of the Israelites in the desert, the sufferings of Job, the passion of Christ (and his statement, Thy will be done), or ...[text shortened]... ay unless there really were some higher need for money. Perhaps Nicksten can explain that.
Not everyone has been called to give up everything. For instance, the demon possessed individual who asked to follow Christ and was refused. Consider cases of Christians with dependents—does Jesus expect them to quit their jobs, leave everything and follow Him? For those in debt and with dependents, a raise at work could be a completely legitimate thing to ask for in prayer.
Second, I think it's contemptible to think of God as praiseworthy simply for bestowing material wealth. If you read the Church Fathers, for example, God's praiseworthiness derives from His nature, as something beautiful and good in itself.
I completely agree. But who is saying God is praiseworthy simply for bestowing material wealth?
29 Jun 11
Originally posted by NickstenAmen brother. I am glad to see you give thanks to The Almighty.
I was called in to discuss my current position with my company. Long story short, they doubled my salary. I was so amazed! Prayer does help, we just have to ask God and stick to being faithful and trust His judgment.
Praise God! Thank you God!
Ignore the nay sayers and other morons. 🙂
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29 Jun 11
Originally posted by epiphinehasNot everyone has been called to give up everything. For instance, the demon possessed individual who asked to follow Christ and was refused. Consider cases of Christians with dependents—does Jesus expect them to quit their jobs, leave everything and follow Him? For those in debt and with dependents, a raise at work could be a completely legitimate thing to ask for in prayer.
[b]It is certainly true that Jesus teaches his disciples to ask for what they need, Give us this day our daily bread, but I can't imagine Jesus instructing his disciples to pray for salary rises -- this is the same Jesus who asked his disciples to give up everything, let the dead bury the dead.
Not everyone has been called to give up ...[text shortened]... ly agree. But who is saying God is praiseworthy simply for bestowing material wealth?[/b]
No but it certainly indicates that material possessions in themselves are not very important for a disciple. Even if one is not called to radical self-abnegation, one cannot take that as licence to live in opulence.
Of course, for those in debt, praying for money is quite acceptable. I don't deny that. Nicksten however did not allude to any exigent needs for money.
29 Jun 11
Originally posted by NickstenNext time, ask for a cure for cancer.
I was called in to discuss my current position with my company. Long story short, they doubled my salary. I was so amazed! Prayer does help, we just have to ask God and stick to being faithful and trust His judgment.
Praise God! Thank you God!
29 Jun 11
Originally posted by 667joeThat's an interesting proposition. We were discussing a very similar concept recently at a bible study. Many denominations have an old testament view where this is concerned. They link personal success with God's favor. If I am faithful then I will succeed, whereas my nieghbor must be sinful, because he is poor i.e. if you are rich its because God loves you more than the poor.
Are you saying people out of work are not as good as you? A lot of them pray too!
Here's the rub (pay attention my brothers and sisters in Christ): Jesus basically said that this type of thinking was nonesense. Blessed are the poor. God loves the poor and weak the same... period. Blessed are the poor because they are not guilty of oppressing anyone. The poor are free from the burden of materialism. When your income is barely enough to feed and cloth you and your children, then cars, TV's and other goods have a much harder time becoming idols.
Christ further aligns himself with the down trodden when he says: what you have done to the least of these my children, you have done to me also. It's not okay to treat the poor, weak and sick in an unjust manner. Christ is about restorative justice, not about punishmment and oppression. How do we restore or make our fellow creatures whole? When we treat them fairly, give them a helping hand, and offer respect rather than disdain.
29 Jun 11
1 edit
Originally posted by Conrau KOf course, for those in debt, praying for money is quite acceptable. I don't deny that. Nicksten however did not allude to any exigent needs for money.
Not everyone has been called to give up everything. For instance, the demon possessed individual who asked to follow Christ and was refused. Consider cases of Christians with dependents—does Jesus expect them to quit their jobs, leave everything and follow Him? For those in debt and with dependents, a raise at work could be a completely legitimate thi acceptable. I don't deny that. Nicksten however did not allude to any exigent needs for money.
Neither did he deny such a need, which is why I think it was unfair to assume his motives were shallow.
29 Jun 11
Originally posted by sonhouseIt feels great - earning more than you do - LOL 😉
So it had nothing to do with your own capabilities, just the big hand in the sky coming down and saying 'double this man's salary, because I like him'? Congratulations anyway! How does it feel to now be making 8 bucks an hour🙂
30 Jun 11
Originally posted by epiphinehasnicely said
The Israelites knew God as Provider. Those who walked according to God's law were promised reward, both financial and spiritual. God is a "rewarder of those who seek Him".
On the contrary, asking for blessings is the opposite of selfish, since doing so acknowledges one's dependence on God—and nothing pleases God more than faith expressing itself as reliance on His word.
30 Jun 11
Originally posted by epiphinehasAnd if his motives were shallow, it does not matter (not saying they were either). They will be taken care of.
[b]Of course, for those in debt, praying for money is quite acceptable. I don't deny that. Nicksten however did not allude to any exigent needs for money.
Neither did he deny such a need, which is why I think it was unfair to assume his motives were shallow.[/b]