Pray for the success of atheism

Originally posted by KellyJay
How do you know people largely agree, and why would they? Most of our laws are based upon what we agree should or should not be done, yet we see crime. We also see laws being ignored, so what are you looking at?

We talk to each other, we read, we watch tv, listen to the radio, we consider the consequences of our actions, and largely, we come to agree. Do you think that most crime is committed by people who think they are behaving in a morally correct way?

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
We talk to each other, we read, we watch tv, listen to the radio, we consider the consequences of our actions, and largely, we come to agree. Do you think that most crime is committed by people who think they are behaving in a morally correct way?

I think a lot of crime is due to people thinking that as long as they don't get caught they can do what they want. Even if they feel guilty about it, because something in them cares more about what they want.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I think a lot of crime is due to people thinking that as long as they don't get caught they can do what they want. Even if they feel guilty about it, because something in them cares more about what they want.

I agree. They are, by and large, acting contrary to what they consider to be morally right. That said, there are some laws which can be argued quite convincingly are not morally right. In breaking these laws a person can become a criminal without acting in a morally questionable way. Some laws also can lose their basis in morality depending on circumstance. A man stealing from a supermarket to feed his starving children is surely not committing any moral crime, right?

Originally posted by dj2becker
Someone can only be 'morally good' according to their own or someone else's subjective moral standard which they got from their society. The question I have asked multiple times that no atheist has ever answered is how do you know which society has the right moral system when they contradict each other?

You indeed 'have' asked it multiple times, and it 'has' been answered many times. (By atheists). For example, do you honestly not recall me telling you that the moral system may indeed be viewed as 'right' within a given society itself but that other societies might not view it so or hold a contradictory view of what is 'right.' - Why is this? Because there are no moral absolutes, no moral law giver. (Though thankfully there is usually a moral convergence on the really important stuff, like murder is wrong etc).

The real interesting question however is why you frequently pretend such repetitive questions haven't been answered? What do you expect to gain from such deception?

Will you, in the future, offer an apology for these false claims, as you did when you admitted deliberately misleading people about your change of accounts?

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
I agree. They are, by and large, acting contrary to what they consider to be morally right. That said, there are some laws which can be argued quite convincingly are not morally right. In breaking these laws a person can become a criminal without acting in a morally questionable way. Some laws also can lose their basis in morality depending on circum ...[text shortened]... rom a supermarket to feed his starving children is surely not committing any moral crime, right?

Stealing to feed one's children is understandable, but its still stealing. I agree with almost everything you just said.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Stealing to feed one's children is understandable, but its still stealing. I agree with almost everything you just said.

Would you consider the morally correct course to be to allow his children to suffer? To allow them to die even?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
I don't think you quite understand what qualifies as a Freudian slip. (Perhaps it's the slowness you speak of? )

A Freudian slip is what you wear when the part covering the crotch is cut out....

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
The Bible certainly doesn't provide a clear "objective" moral standard. If it did, all Christians would have the same views on all moral issues.

People have and do read into it what they will.

Capital punishment?
Slavery?
Race equality?
Gender equality?
Sexual orientation?
Birth control?

The list just goes on and on.

The problem is that ...[text shortened]...
How do you know which Christians have the "right moral system when they contradict each other"?

The Bible certainly doesn't provide a clear "objective" moral standard. If it did, all Christians would have the same views on all moral issues.

It is true that a precise HOW TO on a trillion moral issues is not detailed in the Bible.
As a exhaustive manual we could not use it on each of an infinite number of possible human situations.

But let me ask you - of all people who have walked on the earth which one would you say exemplified to the world the highest moral standard ?

I did not ask if we can live up to that example.
I only ask if you have a particular person in history who you would say showed the highest moral standard by his or her life ?

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
Would you consider the morally correct course to be to allow his children to suffer? To allow them to die even?

No, I would not. That doesn't change anything I said either. We each can paint this as ugly as we want, that doesn't make taking something not yours right, only understandable. If I added the parent who is stealing doesn't work or wants to, they still justified? I would hope we define stealing the same way.

Originally posted by KellyJay
No, I would not. That doesn't change anything I said either. We each can paint this as ugly as we want, that doesn't make taking something not yours right, only understandable. If I added the parent who is stealing doesn't work or wants to, they still justified? I would hope we define stealing the same way.

Wouldn't the morality issue be moot if as it is in some places, Somalia for instance where starvation is rampant, a parent stealing food for the children is on a different plane than say a man stealing food for his kids because he just doesn't want to get a job?

So were you able to find my SC stuff?

Originally posted by sonhouse
Wouldn't the morality issue be moot if as it is in some places, Somalia for instance where starvation is rampant, a parent stealing food for the children is on a different plane than say a man stealing food for his kids because he just doesn't want to get a job?

So were you able to find my SC stuff?

Yes on stuff..and yes on Somalia too, it is still stealing... but it shows us how corrupt our world is to put someone in that place.

avalanchethecat: Would you consider the morally correct course to be to allow his children to suffer? To allow them to die even?

Originally posted by KellyJay
No, I would not.

So would you support society intervening (through the agencies of its elected government) to protect children from parents who pose a threat to their safety - or even their survival - as a result of religious dogma ~ letting children die, for example, for want of medical treatment?

Originally posted by sonship

The Bible certainly doesn't provide a clear "objective" moral standard. If it did, all Christians would have the same views on all moral issues.

It is true that a precise HOW TO on a trillion moral issues is not detailed in the Bible.
As a exhaustive manual we could not use it on each of an infinite number of possible human situations. ...[text shortened]... cular person in history who you would say showed the highest moral standard by his or her life ?

It is true that a precise HOW TO on a trillion moral issues is not detailed in the Bible.
As a exhaustive manual we could not use it on each of an infinite number of possible human situations.

This wasn't the point. Try rereading FMJ's post and my response.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Yes on stuff..and yes on Somalia too, it is still stealing... but it shows us how corrupt our world is to put someone in that place.

It does say a lot about our touted intelligence, eh. Maybe that is why we never heard from aliens, we are not good enough to join the table, in fact we may be quarantined....

Originally posted by sonhouse
It does say a lot about our touted intelligence, eh. Maybe that is why we never heard from aliens, we are not good enough to join the table, in fact we may be quarantined....

We have made this world a wicked place, we do see glimpses of good now and then.