28 Nov 07
Originally posted by doodinthemoodmmm... interesting...it wasn't just myself that prayed...it was a huge amount of people...anyway...maybe it was a state of mind but all i know is that a heck of a lot of people prayed and it worked when doctors said there was no way that she would ever walk again.... another thought.... maybe God did not want those unlucky horseshoe owners to be lucky...its up to him...or maybe there prayers have not been answered yet....and chance...well...im led to believe that God does not like chance,gambling whatever you want to call it.....
so you prayed for your friend to get out of their wheelchair, and now they don't need a wheelchair! OMG that's proof that prayer works.
Wait a second. There are thousands of people still in wheelchairs. And this is a Christian country so the likelihood is that almost all of them are being prayed for. So why hasn't it worked on those occasions?
I ...[text shortened]... tter that we end up with the same amount of success as is dictated by the given ailment.
The long and the short of it to me is that my friend is walking and thanks God everyday for helping her....if she is happy then thats wonderful!
28 Nov 07
1 edit
You've either just lied or live in a place where doctors need to lose their jobs. Did the doctors actually say "there is NO CHANCE she will ever walk again"?
If they did, and that can be shown to be 100% true, then your friend is proof for both prayer, and probably God. If you give me more details I will post it on every forum I know about. If they didn't say that, or it wasn't true, then evidence shows prayer added absolutely nothing to the recovery, and you are therefore suffering from a delusion. It may not be a particularly threatening delusion, but you'd be better off without it.
28 Nov 07
Originally posted by doodinthemoodI have not lied and it happened...the doctors in Seattle indeed said she had no chance... post away if you must...i do and i hope it brings hope to the hopeless.... i hope you will become religious.
You've either just lied or live in a place where doctors need to lose their jobs. Did the doctors actually say "there is NO CHANCE she will ever walk again"?
If they did, and that can be shown to be 100% true, then your friend is proof for both prayer, and probably God. If you give me more details I will post it on every forum I know about. If they ...[text shortened]... on. It may not be a particularly threatening delusion, but you'd be better off without it.
28 Nov 07
Originally posted by doodinthemoodI have not lied and it happened...the doctors in Seattle indeed said she had no chance... post away if you must...i do and i hope it brings hope to the hopeless.... i hope you will become religious.
You've either just lied or live in a place where doctors need to lose their jobs. Did the doctors actually say "there is NO CHANCE she will ever walk again"?
If they did, and that can be shown to be 100% true, then your friend is proof for both prayer, and probably God. If you give me more details I will post it on every forum I know about. If they ...[text shortened]... on. It may not be a particularly threatening delusion, but you'd be better off without it.
28 Nov 07
Originally posted by doodinthemoodI have not lied and it happened...the doctors in Seattle indeed said she had no chance... post away if you must...i do and i hope it brings hope to the hopeless.... i hope you will become religious.
You've either just lied or live in a place where doctors need to lose their jobs. Did the doctors actually say "there is NO CHANCE she will ever walk again"?
If they did, and that can be shown to be 100% true, then your friend is proof for both prayer, and probably God. If you give me more details I will post it on every forum I know about. If they ...[text shortened]... on. It may not be a particularly threatening delusion, but you'd be better off without it.
28 Nov 07
Originally posted by doodinthemoodI have not lied and it happened...the doctors in Seattle indeed said she had no chance... post away if you must...i do and i hope it brings hope to the hopeless.... i hope you will become religious.
You've either just lied or live in a place where doctors need to lose their jobs. Did the doctors actually say "there is NO CHANCE she will ever walk again"?
If they did, and that can be shown to be 100% true, then your friend is proof for both prayer, and probably God. If you give me more details I will post it on every forum I know about. If they ...[text shortened]... on. It may not be a particularly threatening delusion, but you'd be better off without it.
29 Nov 07
Originally posted by doodinthemoodSo if you witnessed Jesus healing people and raising them from the dead etc. back in the day would you then embrace him?
so you prayed for your friend to get out of their wheelchair, and now they don't need a wheelchair! OMG that's proof that prayer works.
Wait a second. There are thousands of people still in wheelchairs. And this is a Christian country so the likelihood is that almost all of them are being prayed for. So why hasn't it worked on those occasions?
I ...[text shortened]... tter that we end up with the same amount of success as is dictated by the given ailment.
29 Nov 07
Originally posted by Jay JoosI'd want to know what was wrong with her in the first place.
My wife and friends prayed for her friend to walk again after her horrific accident.... and one day she got out of her wheelchair and did just that shakily i admit but now she walks just fine...that simple...prayer worked....so...time to become devoutly religious dood!!!
Assuming some sort of neurological problem - ie. brain disconnects - then we know very little about this and I can imagine doctors having no hope.
I can also see the apparently miraculous as a physical result of brain repair - our body is pretty amazing.
In fact, if I were to worship anything - or pray to anything - (which I don't) it would be to the wonder of the human body, which often defies the experts.
Shows just how much we have to learn before we truly are experts.
29 Nov 07
2 edits
Originally posted by amannionI have a similar story in that a miracle occured in a medical setting. The ironic part is that the nurse who told me the story had no religious convicitons at the time and still does not have any.
I'd want to know what was wrong with her in the first place.
Assuming some sort of neurological problem - ie. brain disconnects - then we know very little about this and I can imagine doctors having no hope.
I can also see the apparently miraculous as a physical result of brain repair - our body is pretty amazing.
In fact, if I were to worship anything - often defies the experts.
Shows just how much we have to learn before we truly are experts.
She said she was a nurse who worked on an intensive care unit and had a patient who coded. They worked on her for about 10 minutes but to no avail and they gave up on her. The family then asked if they could go in and be with her so they let them in to say their goodbyes. However, the nurse noticed that they began to become more and more boisterous in the room. In fact, she noticed that they began singing praises to God which she thought to be very odd in light of what had just transpired. However, after about 15 minutes of this one of the family members walked out of the room and asked her what that bleep on the screen was. To her amazement that bleep was her heart beating. To make a long story short, the patient then made a full recovery and was sent home. She then met the patient some weeks after her discharge looking well and as if nothing had happened. She then turned to the family members with her and told them that if she were ever in need of prayer in the hospital she was calling them!!
The nurse told me that it was nothing short of a miracle for many different reasons. One reason is that the patient in question should have at least had brain damage from being oxygen deprived for so long, however, there was no evidence of it. Also, the amount of drugs they infused in her should have had some diliterious effects on her had she been revived. However, none of this happened.
You would think that after witnessing such a miracle she would then drop to her knees and be a changed person, however, her life really did not change at all. She still has no real interest in pursuing a God she cannot physically see or feel.
29 Nov 07
Originally posted by whodeyI don't get too caught up in these sort of stories, no matter how incredible they seem. My experience is that eventually you can get to a rational explanation for any event in a hospital ward.
I have a similar story in that a miracle occured in a medical setting. The ironic part is that the nurse who told me the story had no religious convicitons at the time and still does not have any.
She said she was a nurse who worked on an intensive care unit and had a patient who coded. They worked on her for about 10 minutes but to no avail and they g ...[text shortened]... nge at all. She still has no real interest in pursuing a God she cannot physically see or feel.
And don't forget, I'm an atheist.
You're going to have to work pretty hard to convince me. Actually, strike that. It's going to be almost impossible to convince me, since whatever proof you come up with I'm going to rationalise it away to suit my atheistic world view.
As, I assume you would do in the reverse.
29 Nov 07
2 edits
Originally posted by amannionYou win the prize!! Belief is a powerful thing, no? Even in light of evidences to the contrary placed before us our belief is what guides us. It is what I have always suspected, our beliefs shape our reality and not the other way around.
I'm going to rationalise it away to suit my atheistic world view.
As, I assume you would do in the reverse.[/b]
It then makes one wonder how belief as formed or destroyed. This is a bigger question.
29 Nov 07
Originally posted by whodeyI suspect it's apathy mostly.
You win the prize!! Belief is a powerful thing, no? Even in light of evidences to the contrary placed before us our belief is what guides us. It is what I have always suspected, our beliefs shape our reality and not the other way around.
It then makes one wonder how belief as formed or destroyed. This is a bigger question.
I was happy to believe christianity. Why bother to worry about it? It didn't really have much to do with my world - that is, the day to day running of my life.
But as I learnt more about the world - a scientific explanation for the world - I came to realise that I did need to make a decision and so I really started to think about my beliefs.
Others don't bother and who really can blame them?
It's simpler just to believe what you're told and be done with.
29 Nov 07
1 edit
Originally posted by whodey
So if you witnessed Jesus healing people and raising them from the dead etc. back in the day would you then embrace him?
If there was little reason to suspect trickery, yes. It would be idiotic not to go where the evidence leads.
Originally posted by whodey
You win the prize!! Belief is a powerful thing, no? Even in light of evidences to the contrary placed before us our belief is what guides us.
http://www.copingwithmentalillness.com/cope/resources/glossary.aspx
"Delusion(de-loo-zhun)
A fixed belief that has no basis in reality, and is not affected by rational argument or evidence to the contrary"
🙂 Thank you for admitting that evidence can never effect your view.