13 May 06
Originally posted by twhiteheadDoesn't that go for the human race also?
So is he outside time like God or within the universe?
God and you know that he wont change (and I am sure he over heard us speaking) so what happened to his free will?
Just like us God created him, gave him free will, but neglected to give him the intelligence to know what the right choices were. Surely that comes down to negligence on Gods part?
13 May 06
Originally posted by twhiteheadNo he isn't outside of time, he is just a created being full of himself.
So is he outside time like God or within the universe?
God and you know that he wont change (and I am sure he over heard us speaking) so what happened to his free will?
Just like us God created him, gave him free will, but neglected to give him the intelligence to know what the right choices were. Surely that comes down to negligence on Gods part?
Kelly
13 May 06
Originally posted by gambit3Not completely. If Satan came to accept God and offered true repentance for the choices he has made, he would be forgiven - at least according to the Bible.
It is too late for that. He has committed the unpardonable sin. He has totally and completely rejected God's way for himself.
Then again, the Bible does indeed describe the rejection of the Holy Spirit as an unpardonable sin.
Another of those Biblical contradictions I suppose.
-JC
13 May 06
First things first. Satan was never lucifer. The image never changed. We have different names for him, but he's still the same entity. Second, God never willed Lucifer into being to hold an equilibriam in the master plan. Lucifer was Saint Lucious, God's right hand man. He didn't have free will but he was jelous of Man. He foresake Man for taking God's attention away from him. He is THE fallen angel. Thirdly, religion is fiction. Great story but never to be believed. Tolkien wrote better.
13 May 06
Originally posted by recedaIllogical. If Saint Lucious didn't have free will, he would not have been capable of rejecting God OR Man.
First things first. Satan was never lucifer. The image never changed. We have different names for him, but he's still the same entity. Second, God never willed Lucifer into being to hold an equilibriam in the master plan. Lucifer was Saint Lucious, God's right hand man. He didn't have free will but he was jelous of Man. He foresake Man for taking God's attent ...[text shortened]... l. Thirdly, religion is fiction. Great story but never to be believed. Tolkien wrote better.
-JC
13 May 06
Now in our modern forward thinking times, we are able to pick apart the story and find faults. Eg. men don't have 1 less rib so God never created Eve from Adam's rib. Adam's apple... How else do you describe the meaning of temptation to a group of desert dwellers. A crisp cold juicy apple. All fiction full of flaws.
13 May 06
Originally posted by recedaYou won't receive an argument from me on this point, however I believe the thread's initial question requires we accept the "fiction" as fact - at least within the context of this hypothetical inquiry.
Now in our modern forward thinking times, we are able to pick apart the story and find faults. Eg. men don't have 1 less rib so God never created Eve from Adam's rib. Adam's apple... How else do you describe the meaning of temptation to a group of desert dwellers. A crisp cold juicy apple. All fiction full of flaws.
-JC
13 May 06
Originally posted by ChurlantI guess it is impossible to be at to point of no return. I still say Lucifer is at the point of no return. He has become the devil and satan. He absolutely rejects God's way in everything he does. I doubt satan will even speak any of God's names.
Not completely. If Satan came to accept God and offered true repentance for the choices he has made, he would be forgiven - at least according to the Bible.
Then again, the Bible does indeed describe the rejection of the Holy Spirit as an unpardonable sin.
Another of those Biblical contradictions I suppose.
-JC
13 May 06
Originally posted by gambit3God apparently doesn't believe you. He is giving Satan plenty of time to repent, it seems.
I guess it is impossible to be at to point of no return. I still say Lucifer is at the point of no return. He has become the devil and satan. He absolutely rejects God's way in everything he does. I doubt satan will even speak any of God's names.
-JC
14 May 06
Originally posted by ChurlantSeems more to me that satan is a tool that God is using. This blasted world is all that satan is going to have. It is his kingdom. How do you like satan's kingdom rules so far?
God apparently doesn't believe you. He is giving Satan plenty of time to repent, it seems.
-JC
14 May 06
Originally posted by ChurlantWhat I can't appreciate is allowing Satan to remain free during that process, especially when God already knows how that appeal will end.
Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Since God saw fit to allow Satan an appeal process (which, IMO shows supreme confidence in the 'rightness' of His position)
I can appreciate an appeals process. What I can't appreciate is allowing Satan to remain free during that process, especially when God already knows how that appeal will end. While you may ...[text shortened]... is purpose" is simply "God works in mysterious ways" in different clothing.
-JC[/b]
Part of the appeal argument, unfortunately. Satan's mulitple charges includes the right to accuse believers of their willful wrongs, in addition to exercising the authority over the earth given to him by default in the Garden.
While you may not be worried about "purpose", I find the concept of letting such evil to act freely highly sadistic.
I never worry about the little things, I suppose.
As an example, each attempt I make at questioning how one could logically consider a God that allows a being such as Satan to remain free as "loving" seems to be met with avoidance.
I trust that I have not avoided the question. If so, I know Scripture certainly has not avoided the same.
14 May 06
Originally posted by ChurlantIf Satan came to accept God and offered true repentance for the choices he has made, he would be forgiven - at least according to the Bible.
Not completely. If Satan came to accept God and offered true repentance for the choices he has made, he would be forgiven - at least according to the Bible.
Then again, the Bible does indeed describe the rejection of the Holy Spirit as an unpardonable sin.
Another of those Biblical contradictions I suppose.
-JC
Unfortunately, not a possibility, and certainly not supported by the Bible.