Praying for Satan

Originally posted by orfeo
Either is someone is perfect or they're not. You can't be half-perfect and half earn your way into heaven. Same as you can't be half-pregnant.

I wouldn't be so certain. If Schrodinger's cat can be both dead and alive at once, I see no reason we couldn't have a woman both pregnant - and not pregnant - at the same time. You could consider that state "half-pregnant", assuming you had a sense of humor.

-JC

Originally posted by orfeo
Either is someone is perfect or they're not. You can't be half-perfect and half earn your way into heaven. Same as you can't be half-pregnant.

not a purgatory man then?

Originally posted by Churlant
You present yourself a catch-22 in this instance. First you claim God is allowing Satan an "appeals process", which seems to indicate He is giving Satan the opportunity to recognize his errors and redeem himself in the eyes of the Lord.

Now you claim this is impossible, despite God's apparent offering. Scripture certainly does support the concept of bein ...[text shortened]... rdonable sin", but we don't need to delve there just yet).

So which is it, then?

-JC

The appeal phase is based upon an objection to the sentence, not a chance for Satan to get his stuff together.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
The appeal phase is based upon an objection to the sentence, not a chance for Satan to get his stuff together.

Then I must ask yet again - what is the point of that appeal if it is impossible for either God or Satan to change their respective minds?

-JC

Originally posted by scottishinnz
not a purgatory man then?

Hmmm, I hadn't ever conceived of purgatory as 'earning', but no.

Originally posted by orfeo
Hmmm, I hadn't ever conceived of purgatory as 'earning', but no.

It could be concieved as earning your way out of hell, surely?

Originally posted by scottishinnz
It could be concieved as earning your way out of hell, surely?

Sorry, I wasn't disagreeing with you! I was just saying I'd never thought of it that way before. Seeing as how I don't accept the notion of purgatory, I hadn't given it a great deal of thought.

Originally posted by Churlant
Then I must ask yet again - what is the point of that appeal if it is impossible for either God or Satan to change their respective minds?

-JC

What is God's purpose, or Satan's?

Satan's appeal is (essentially) an objection to God's sentence under the charge of unfairness. 'How can a loving God, who created me, sentence me to hell? Anyone in the same situation as me would have responded the same way.' God's response is that the creature needs the Creator in order to be good/perfect. Outside of perfection is desolate wasteland. Satan says otherwise, that we don't need God to be good, nor is perfection necessarily all that and a bag of chips.

The appeal process is to give Satan an opportunity to prove his point. God uses the process as an opportunity to bring more sons to His glory.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH


The appeal process is to give Satan an opportunity to prove his point. .

Is it at all possible that Satan is correct and his point will be proven?

-JC

Originally posted by Churlant
Is it at all possible that Satan is correct and his point will be proven?

-JC

He, among others, is of that opinion. I, for one, am not. You?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
He, among others, is of that opinion. I, for one, am not. You?

If God is giving Satan a chance to prove "X", then X must be a possibility. If X is NOT possible, then the entire process is pointless and illogical - two descriptions I would think shouldn't be applied to God - not to mention this conclusion would mean God is only placating Satan, and appeasement doesn't seem the kind of action to be taken against such a being.

I didn't ask for your opinion. I'm attempting to establish fact. If you do not know for sure, you can say so - but so far you seem to be pretty confident in your statements.

Continually you present what seems a contrary argument and I am sincerely trying to nail it down.


-JC

Originally posted by Churlant
If God is giving Satan a chance to prove "X", then X must be a possibility. If X is NOT possible, then the entire process is pointless and illogical - two descriptions I would think shouldn't be applied to God - not to mention this conclusion would mean God is only placating Satan, and appeasement doesn't seem the kind of action to be taken against such a b ...[text shortened]... present what seems a contrary argument and I am sincerely trying to nail it down.


-JC

If God is giving Satan a chance to prove "X", then X must be a possibility.
Not at all. What Satan claimed is absurd. Whether God takes a split second and enforces the sentence based upon the facts, or takes millions of years, the end result is the same. The difference, of course, makes it possible for man to be involved. Who can quibble about the delay?

If you do not know for sure, you can say so - but so far you seem to be pretty confident in your statements.
My response was in the spirit of the question. God says it is not possible for Him to be in error. I'm going to agree with Him on all matters.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
[b]If God is giving Satan a chance to prove "X", then X must be a possibility.
Not at all. What Satan claimed is absurd. Whether God takes a split second and enforces the sentence based upon the facts, or takes millions of years, the end result is the same. The difference, of course, makes it possible for man to be involved. Who can quibble about ...[text shortened]... says it is not possible for Him to be in error. I'm going to agree with Him on all matters.[/b]

He has no intention of reversing His decision against Satan, and assuming He does not make errors to begin with, the entire presumption of an "appeals" process is moot.

Viewed in this way, one must question which is more absurd - God re-evaluating a decision which by nature must be initially correct, or Satan - misguided as he may be, continuing to rebel.

The conclusion reached is that God is only playing games... and not for the first time, I must ask to what end?

If the purpose is so that Man can become involved for thousands of years, dealing with untold suffering in the mean time, I can indeed quibble with an unnecessary delay.

-JC

Originally posted by Churlant
He has no intention of reversing His decision against Satan, and assuming He does not make errors to begin with, the entire presumption of an "appeals" process is moot.

Viewed in this way, one must question which is more absurd - God re-evaluating a decision which by nature must be initially correct, or Satan - misguided as he may be, continuing to rebel ...[text shortened]... with untold suffering in the mean time, I can indeed quibble with an unnecessary delay.

-JC

He has no intention of reversing His decision against Satan, and assuming He does not make errors to begin with, the entire presumption of an "appeals" process is moot.
Other than proving the justness of His verdict in the minds of all, I suppose you have a small point. Except for the fact that the appeal process makes human history a reality, of course.

or Satan - misguided as he may be, continuing to rebel.
That's where the smart money is on this one.

and not for the first time, I must ask to what end?
You certainly can ask multiple times as readily as I have answered multiple times. Maybe I should try it in a different language?
HINT: To bring more sons into His glory. END OF HINT

I can indeed quibble with an unnecessary delay.
You can quibble your life away, if you wish. Such quibbling carries no weight in my judgment. IMO, humble as it may be, the juice is worth the squeeze. Maybe I just haven't suffered as much as you, though.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
You can quibble your life away, if you wish. Such quibbling carries no weight in my judgment. IMO, humble as it may be, the juice is worth the squeeze. Maybe I just haven't suffered as much as you, though.

I have not truly suffered. I somehow doubt you have either. The final point of these posts is purely theoretical on my part, as I don't believe in Satan at all - however you obviously do, and my curiosity stems from your willingness (and those who believe as you do) to let others suffer, both past present and future. Evidently allowing Satan to run around, causing pain and destruction for a few thousand years, is a small price to pay for bringing more of God's Children to His Eternal Glory.

In my opinion, which I would never pretend is humble, this type of exchange would be a faith-breaker. I cannot abide by any parent who beats their children - or allows them to be beaten - while claiming it's for their own good.

-JC