Originally posted by RBHILLI'd still rather see the scriptures that confirm the trinity then go to google. The bible is what we are speaking of here...
I don't need to post them for you anyone who chooses to want to look they can go to Google and type in Scriptures that show that the Holy Spirit, Jesus, and God are all equal!!! And by so doing that going to Google it shows that you're really serious about wanting to learn because if I just post it here then you're not serious and you're not wanting to learn.
Originally posted by galveston75correct me if I am wrong, did Jesus not say, 'the Father is greater than I', did I dream that? make it up? see it written on a subway wall? How are they saying that Jesus and the father are equal when Jesus himself says that the Father is greater? Who shall we believe, them or Jesus?
I'd still rather see the scriptures that confirm the trinity then go to google. The bible is what we are speaking of here...
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWell I'd say your right on that.
correct me if I am wrong, did Jesus not say, 'the Father is greater than I', did I dream that? make it up? see it written on a subway wall? How are they saying that Jesus and the father are equal when Jesus himself says that the Father is greater? Who shall we believe, them or Jesus?
Just looking up some other scriptures and this is pretty clear I'd think:
1 Peter 1:3
Common English Bible (CEB)
Thanksgiving
3 May the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ be blessed! On account of his vast mercy, he has given us new birth. You have been born anew into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.
It seems Jesus "has a God" who we know is Jehovah. But if Jesus were God himself, how could he have a God?
Here are a few more:
Listed below are individual Bible verses which prove conclusively that Jesus Christ was not God, but God's Son.
Matthew 3:16-17; 8:29; 11:27; 12:18; 14:33; 16:16-17; 17:5; 27:54
Mark 5:7; 15:39
Luke 1:32; 1:35; 8:28; 9:35; 10:22
John 1:13; 1:18; 1:34; 1:49; 3:16; 5:19-23; 5:37; 6:40; 6:69; 8:18; 8:42; 10:15; 10:36; 11:4; 12:49-50; 14:13; 14:23; 14:28; 16:17; 17:1-16; 20:17; 20:31
Acts 2:22-24; 3:13; 3:26; 9:20
Romans 1:4; 5:10; 8:29
1 Corinthians 11:3; 15:28
2 Corinthians 1:19
Galatians 4:4
Philippians 2:9
Colossians 1:13
1 Thessalonians 1:10
1 Timothy 2:5
Hebrews 1:2; 2:9; 4:14; 5:7-8
1 Peter 1:3
2 Peter 1:17
1 John 1:3; 2:22; 3:23; 4:10; 4:14-15; 5:11-12
2 John 1:9
Revelation 2:18
Just looked here for their explination of the trinity: www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Free-Bible-Dictionary
Followed their link: www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Free-Bible-Dictionary-T.php
then went here: Trinity
"A word not found in Scripture, but used to express the doctrine" of the unity of God as subsisting in three distinct Persons. "This word is derived from the Gr. trias, first used by" "Theophilus (A.D. 168-183), or from the Lat. trinitas, first used" "by Tertullian (A.D. 220), to express this doctrine. The" propositions involved in the doctrine are these: 1. That God is "one, and that there is but one God (Deut. 6:4; 1 Kings 8:60;" "Isa. 44:6; Mark 12:29, 32; John 10:30). 2. That the Father is a" "distinct divine Person (hypostasis, subsistentia, persona," "suppositum intellectuale), distinct from the Son and the Holy" "Spirit. 3. That Jesus Christ was truly God, and yet was a Person" distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit. 4. That the Holy Spirit is also a distinct divine Person.
Then followed this to this: See where Trinity occurs in the Bible...
And got this: 'TRINITY' in the Bible... No direct matches for your keyword exist in the King James Bible.
Wow. The central doctrine of the churches but this is where one would hope to find somekind of an explination of it!
From the Holman Bible dictionary:
"The New Testament does not present a systematic presentation of the Trinity. The scattered segments from various writers that appear throughout the New Testament reflect a seemingly accepted understanding that exists without a full-length discussion. It is embedded in the framework of the Christian experience and simply assumed as true. The New Testament writers focus on statements drawn from the obvious existence of the trinitarian experience as opposed to a detailed exposition".
Originally posted by galveston75No doubt these verses were gleaned from a search for "God's Son" or some such. As such, they only prove Jesus is "God's Son", not that He is not God. Or others like 1 Peter 1:3 that do NOT "prove" Jesus is not God, but which you twist into a "proof".
Here are a few more:
Listed below are individual Bible verses which prove conclusively that Jesus Christ was not God, but God's Son.
Matthew 3:16-17; 8:29; 11:27; 12:18; 14:33; 16:16-17; 17:5; 27:54
Mark 5:7; 15:39
Luke 1:32; 1:35; 8:28; 9:35; 1 r 1:3
2 Peter 1:17
1 John 1:3; 2:22; 3:23; 4:10; 4:14-15; 5:11-12
2 John 1:9
Revelation 2:18
Twist away! There are some that still see it for what it is.
Originally posted by SuzianneOh my........
No doubt these verses were gleaned from a search for "God's Son" or some such. As such, they only prove Jesus is "God's Son", not that He is not God. Or others like 1 Peter 1:3 that do NOT "prove" Jesus is not God, but which you twist into a "proof".
Twist away! There are some that still see it for what it is.
Originally posted by RJHindsI'd prefer to hear beauroberts response to the points in my post; if he is prepared to give one.
In Christianity, Sabellianism (also known as modalism, modalistic monarchianism, or modal monarchism) is the nontrinitarian belief that the Heavenly Father, Resurrected Son and Holy Spirit are different modes or aspects of one monadic God, as perceived by the believer, rather than three distinct persons within the Godhead.
The term Sabellianism comes fro ...[text shortened]... epting the Nicean doctrine that Jesus is fully God.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabellianism
Originally posted by beaurobertsThe Jews, like the Jehovah Witnesses are also into the one God concept. There is nothing wrong with this in my opinion. Trying to wrap a mind around the Trinity concept isn't for everyone. Jesus himself stated, if they are not against us then they are for us.
There are many different branches of Christianity with many different belief sets. However it is mutually agreed upon that Satan is all together wicked and will do everything in his power to take true worship away from our creator Jehovah God.
(Everything in his power) This includes the way the world sometimes views God's son Jesus.
We have been t ...[text shortened]... his sacrifice and not to Jesus honoring the commandment "Have no other gods before me."
Beau
The problem many Christians face is simply they cannot accept someone else, or their church, that doesn't comprehend Jesus as God. As i've said in the past, "What part of God is not God". If a man loves God with his heart, doesn't he already love Jesus too. It matters not if you are a J. W. or Jew or American Indian or any other God/Great Spirit believing person. It is still One God.
Originally posted by PudgenikBut why the word "one" then? If God is indeed a thre in one being, ewhy not just call it that? But yet the bible never says that on any level.
The Jews, like the Jehovah Witnesses are also into the one God concept. There is nothing wrong with this in my opinion. Trying to wrap a mind around the Trinity concept isn't for everyone. Jesus himself stated, if they are not against us then they are for us.
The problem many Christians face is simply they cannot accept someone else, or their church, tha ...[text shortened]... . or Jew or American Indian or any other God/Great Spirit believing person. It is still One God.
one [wuhn] Show IPA
adjective
1.
being or amounting to a single unit or individual or entire thing, item, or object rather than two or more; a single: one woman; one nation; one piece of cake.
2.
being a person, thing, or individual instance or member of a number, kind, group, or category indicated: one member of the party.
3.
existing, acting, or considered as a single unit, entity, or individual.
4.
of the same or having a single kind, nature, or condition: We belong to one team; We are of one resolve.
5.
noting some indefinite day or time in the future: You will see him one day.
I'm still trying to figure out how the word one means three in any language.....
Originally posted by galveston75With the Jews, there is a twist. They recognize the oneness of God had a second entity.
But why the word "one" then? If God is indeed a thre in one being, ewhy not just call it that? But yet the bible never says that on any level.
one [wuhn] Show IPA
adjective
1.
being or amounting to a single unit or individual or entire thing, item, or object rather than two or more; a single: one woman; one nation; one piece of cake.
2.
being ...[text shortened]... m one day.
I'm still trying to figure out how the word one means three in any language.....
I explained it like a candle in another thread. Wick, wax and fire. All serving a unique purpose. Nearly concealing the wick, the wax reveals it as Jesus reveals the Father. And the Holy Spirit, the fire. The most important part, that holds it all together, is the wick, or the Father.
Just as it is hard for many Christians to accept JW's because of the One issues. The JW's have issues with the Trinity. As i said. God is God.
What we should be getting ready for is what is coming, and not arguing over what my church versus your church. The bottom line, Jesus states, "Love God" and then "Love your neighbor"
Originally posted by Pudgenik"Worship God with spirit and TRUTH" John 4:24. Since when does God accept his being worshipped with something that is not true but has a serious paganistic origin?
With the Jews, there is a twist. They recognize the oneness of God had a second entity.
I explained it like a candle in another thread. Wick, wax and fire. All serving a unique purpose. Nearly concealing the wick, the wax reveals it as Jesus reveals the Father. And the Holy Spirit, the fire. The most important part, that holds it all together, is the wi ...[text shortened]... urch versus your church. The bottom line, Jesus states, "Love God" and then "Love your neighbor"
You may think it's ok as well as others here to "white wash" or compromise ones worship with a "whatever" attitude, but we do not.
So from our viewpoint it isn't church vs church. It's being truthful with our worship and what GOD EXPECTS with being truthful.
And the reason we care and go door to door to show these truths just as Jesus told us to do, is every humans future life is at stake. If it didn't matter then why did Jesus do what he did?
Originally posted by RBHILLIt seems clear that he is only interested in pushing the Watchtower propaganda and damn the truth.
I don't need to post them for you anyone who chooses to want to look they can go to Google and type in Scriptures that show that the Holy Spirit, Jesus, and God are all equal!!! And by so doing that going to Google it shows that you're really serious about wanting to learn because if I just post it here then you're not serious and you're not wanting to learn.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWe have explained this many times to you, but you are not interesed in learning the truth, so there is no need to repeat it again, for you will just plead amnesia again as usual.
correct me if I am wrong, did Jesus not say, 'the Father is greater than I', did I dream that? make it up? see it written on a subway wall? How are they saying that Jesus and the father are equal when Jesus himself says that the Father is greater? Who shall we believe, them or Jesus?