Spirituality
02 Jun 12
02 Jun 12
1 edit
My question in this thread is to all readers, is your religion (if you have one) "progressive" and if so how is this demonstrated?
Also to the JWs, especially robbie carrobie - how are the JW's "progressive" in the context of your comment called out in the quotes below about "revising teachings"?
Why am I starting this thread ... In the 1914 thread robbie carrobie asked this question:
"do you think the Baptists will ever revise their teaching"
I asked him:
"Do you think this is an important attribute of a religious organisation, if so why?"
robbie replied:
because Gods organisation should be progressive, the Bible itself says as much.
I asked for Biblical referrences but as yet he has not responded - galveston responded, but the first scripture I looked at seemed to be about personal Chrisitan growth not progression in terms of revised teachings.
02 Jun 12
Originally posted by karoly aczelNo, I said in the OP "your religion" specifically meaning "your religion".
Are you suggesting progressive christianity when you say "religion" specifically? and if so, could you point out what you mean (a bit more) by "progressive" ? In what way?
I also explained "progressive" in the context of robbie carrobie's comment about "revised teachings", this is why I included that exchange in the OP.
Did you read the OP karoly?
02 Jun 12
Originally posted by divegeesterSo as a yardstick would you regard the C of E as a progressive denomination of Christianity?
No, I said in the OP "your religion" specifically meaning "your religion".
I also explained "progressive" in the context of robbie carrobie's comment about "revised teachings", this is why I included that exchange in the OP.
Did you read the OP karoly?
02 Jun 12
Originally posted by divegeesterPeople who truly model their beliefs on the teachings of Christ, Paul and the early church which Paul and the Apostles set up, would not need to change or modify any doctrine or teaching because they would all be correct and clearly stated by Christ and Paul etc.
My question in this thread is to all readers, is your religion (if you have one) "progressive" and if so how is this demonstrated?
Also to the JWs, especially robbie carrobie - how are the JW's "progressive" in the context of your comment called out in the quotes below about "revising teachings"?
Why am I starting this thread ... In the 1914 thread ...[text shortened]... to be about personal Chrisitan growth not progression in terms of revised teachings.
Personal progress is another thing and is supposed to be a constant moving toward following the commandments of Christ. A young Christian progresses by growing in knowledge and understanding, and should be able as he grows older to resist the temptations of the world.
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02 Jun 12
2 edits
Originally posted by divegeesterThis thread will inevitably focus on Progressive Christianity (PC) so I will go ahead in that direction. There seem to be two main aspects of PC - a commitment to social welfare that draws on John 15:17, and a non-literal reading of the Bible. The latter aspect will probably get more attention on this forum, but the social welfare aspect appears to get more day-to-day attention from PC adherents. You asked "... all readers, is your religion (if you have one)..." about this. Since I don't qualify as a theist on this forum, I have to say only that I lean toward the social welfare aspects of PC, although more in my personal interactions than in terms of government-run programs (I am cynical about government "aid" more than I am right-wing.) I believe that there is little reason in the Bible or other religious teachings to justify rejection of PC's social values.
My question in this thread is to all readers, is your religion (if you have one) "progressive" and if so how is this demonstrated?
Also to the JWs, especially robbie carrobie - how are the JW's "progressive" in the context of your comment called out in the quotes below about "revising teachings"?
Why am I starting this thread ... In the 1914 thread to be about personal Chrisitan growth not progression in terms of revised teachings.
02 Jun 12
1 edit
Originally posted by JS357
This thread will inevitably focus on Progressive Christianity (PC) so I will go ahead in that direction. There seem to be two main aspects of PC - a commitment to social welfare that draws on John 15:17, and a non-literal reading of the Bible. The latter aspect will probably get more attention on this forum, but the social welfare aspect appears to get more d ason in the Bible or other religious teachings to justify rejection of PC's social values.
This thread will inevitably focus on Progressive Christianity (PC)
Probably.
so I will go ahead in that direction. There seem to be two main aspects of PC - a commitment to social welfare that draws on John 15:17, and a non-literal reading of the Bible.
Social benevolence under the banner of Christ goes back very far in church history.
I think it would be a mistake to make a strict dichotomy between "literal reading of the Bible" and "Social benevolence & charity". The dichotomy would not always hold up through the centries of Christian outreach.
It is true that the "Social Gospel" is championed often by the more liberal wing of Protestantism. But the social benevolence was also practiced by Fundamentalists, Catholics, and conservative branches.
The Salvation Army would have a conservative reading of the Bible. Who would charge the Salvation Army with not being concerned with reaching to the public in material / medical/ financial aid ?
Mennonites, conservative Quakers, and conservative Methodists were all involved in Slave Abolition. "Literal Reading of the Bible is always verses Social Welfare" would be an exaggeration.
The latter aspect will probably get more attention on this forum, but the social welfare aspect appears to get more day-to-day attention from PC adherents. You asked "... all readers, is your religion (if you have one)..." about this. Since I don't qualify as a theist on this forum, I have to say only that I lean toward the social welfare aspects of PC, although more in my personal interactions than in terms of government-run programs (I am cynical about government "aid" more than I am right-wing.) I believe that there is little reason in the Bible or other religious teachings to justify rejection of PC's social values.
No particular comment. Are you a theist ? Did I disqualify you as a theist ever if you simply believe in God - ie. Unitarian, Moslem, or one of a number of strands of Judaism.
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02 Jun 12
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillNo, you did not disqualify me. I have stated from time to time that when I introspect, I find no believe that a deity exists. This does not make me want to go around saying that there is no deity or no possible deity, but I am not banking on there being a deity or even on it being possible that there is.This thread will inevitably focus on Progressive Christianity (PC)
Probably.
so I will go ahead in that direction. There seem to be two main aspects of PC - a commitment to social welfare that draws on John 15:17, and a non-literal reading of the Bible.
Social benevolence under the banner of Christ goes back v ieve in God - ie. Unitarian, Moslem, or one of a number of strands of Judaism.
That's about all I can say on the subject, aside from the obvious fact that I am interested in what people believe. I have asked you about how we should relate what God presents to us by revelation to what God presents to us by showing us the created world (via "science" ), and I know that seems to imply that I believe in God and revelation and creation; but I ask it that way out of respect for what you might say. I don't want to waste time on whether God exists. I don't ask other people here the same kind of questions, because I think they do want to waste time on questions I am not asking.
03 Jun 12
Originally posted by JS357You are saying that a ‘good’ or ‘correct’ religion should focus its "works" primarily on providing for the poor and supporting the wider social infrastructure, rather than concentrating its external efforts on proselyting?
This thread will inevitably focus on Progressive Christianity (PC) so I will go ahead in that direction. There seem to be two main aspects of PC - a commitment to social welfare that draws on John 15:17, and a non-literal reading of the Bible. The latter aspect will probably get more attention on this forum, but the social welfare aspect appears to get more d ...[text shortened]... ason in the Bible or other religious teachings to justify rejection of PC's social values.
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03 Jun 12
Originally posted by divegeesterI'm not saying what a good or correct religion should do. I personally lean toward directly helping people deal with the here and now, compared to helping them gain what the person helping them believes is their ultimate salvation, but after all, I don't have a creed that focuses on ultimate salvation. I imagine that a lot of people do both of these things and a lot of religions approve of that. I know one JW personally who is right now, pitching in to give practical daily help to a person in need. Of course she is also talking about religion, but the people she is with are used to it and she's not pestering anyone about it.
You are saying that a ‘good’ or ‘correct’ religion should focus its "works" primarily on providing for the poor and supporting the wider social infrastructure, rather than concentrating its external efforts on proselyting?
I misunderstood the OP and thought it was more generally about progressive Christianity which has a Wikipedia entry, but now I realize it was more about an ongoing forum issue. If I had seen that, I wouldn't have said anything.
04 Jun 12
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterI know my church has become more progressive. In fact, they recently started printing their own money, Keynesian style, to help feed the poor. Also they recently added a dozen or so departments to the church such as the department of parking, the department of communion, the department of tithing etc. My pastor then hired a dozen church czars to oversee the progress within the church and also decided to decrease the tithe for the poor to 1% and increase the tithe for the rich to 20%.
My question in this thread is to all readers, is your religion (if you have one) "progressive" and if so how is this demonstrated?
Also to the JWs, especially robbie carrobie - how are the JW's "progressive" in the context of your comment called out in the quotes below about "revising teachings"?
Why am I starting this thread ... In the 1914 thread to be about personal Chrisitan growth not progression in terms of revised teachings.
Yes, we are one of the most progressive by far.
04 Jun 12
Originally posted by whodeyThe church I was once a member of, in one of the eastern provinces here, was engaged in fighting domestic violence, building free schools in remote areas and for the urban poor, sticking up for marginalized groups, running preventative health care programmes, supporting community groups and often protecting them from outside commercial interests, enabling less well off people to gain access to higher education, facilitating micro-businesses, and so on. I saw it as being quite clearly "progressive".
I know my church has become more progressive. In fact, they recently started printing their own money, Keynesian style, to help feed the poor. Also they recently added a dozen or so departments to the church such as the department of parking, the department of communion, the department of tithing etc. My pastor then hired a dozen church czars to oversee th ...[text shortened]... % and increase the tithe for the rich to 20%.
Yes, we are one of the most progressive by far.