Proof of the non-existence of God

Originally posted by jaywill
So what's the answer for a Christian to have a more full experience of Christ?

Is it to throw up your hands and become atheist ?

I mean let's see your remedy to the problems you love to mention (valid or not).

Did you even read my post? Or is this a continuation of your knee jerk attacks? No where did I there or ever post anything that advocates throwing up one's hand and becoming atheist.

If you read my post, part of the remedy should be evident.

Originally posted by josephw
To be honest, I'm sort of confounded by your line of reasoning.

Not to debate with any one point you make, but at what point in life are we accepted by God?

Is it when we stop sinning? I've never heard of anyone that ever has. I've never heard anyone ever say they have stopped sinning.

You are accepted by God once you are born of the spirit, i.e. truth, love, compassion, justice, etc. A symptom of this would be that you would no longer continue to sin. You would be one with God, so sinning would never be an option, just as I assume rape is never an option for you.

Perhaps you've never "heard of anyone that ever has", because so many are hindered by the points I made above. The problem is that because of what they have been taught and believe, they don't seek God with all their might. They are content to remain as they are.

Why do you not believe the words of Jesus instead of your limited experience?
"The truth will set you free."
"Seek and you shall find."

Originally posted by jaywill
I need to read the posts and authors more carefully. Sorry.

I don't think ThinkOfOne is concerned about the sinning or victory of Christians.

I think he is concerned with honing in his skills with "Gotchya!" theology. He wants to put Christians in hog tie by selecting portions of the Bible he thinks present logically impossible dilemmas for believe says.

Don't just know what is written but know what else "again, it is written".

As I've stated many times: I believe Jesus spoke the truth. It's unfortunate that the vast majority of Christians do not follow the teachings of Jesus. The world would be a much better place if they actually did.

If you took Jesus at His word instead of substituting the teachings of others, you'd understand this.

Instead you continue with your unfounded accusations and attacks.

You must do KM proud.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
As I've stated many times: I believe Jesus spoke the truth. It's unfortunate that the vast majority of Christians do not follow the teachings of Jesus. The world would be a much better place if they actually did.

If you took Jesus at His word instead of substituting the teachings of others, you'd understand this.

Instead you continue with your unfounded accusations and attacks.

You must do KM proud.

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As I've stated many times: I believe Jesus spoke the truth. It's unfortunate that the vast majority of Christians do not follow the teachings of Jesus. The world would be a much better place if they actually did.
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There you go again. What makes you think Jesus came to make the world a better place anyway?

He said "I will build my church". That is the ekklesia - the CALLED OUT congregation. They are in the world but are not of the world.

Where do you get the idea that Jesus came with some big bandaids to make your world a better place?

If you know how all the Christians should be acting then God will hold you more reponsible - you know better.

Can you teach them then the way to victory in the Christian life ? I would think that you would feel right at home with all those enemic disciples.

By the way, I know of many thousands of Christians living in victory in Christ. So I think you're propoganda is not completely founded. And I see no positive care for those weak to lead them to victory.

I mean Jesus told Peter - "Feed my sheep". He didn't say "Constantly criticize my sheep." How enept and self righteous can you get ?!

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If you took Jesus at His word instead of substituting the teachings of others, you'd understand this.
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You don't take Jesus and His word. You have demonstrated that. You reject the words of Jesus in the book of Acts after His ascension. So please, no lectures about taking Jesus' word.

You don't take His word concerning His apostle Paul. And quite a few words of His in the Gospels I am sure you really don't take either.

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Instead you continue with your unfounded accusations and attacks.
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Attacks, Yea, I guess so. Unfounded ? No, they are well founded on the examples of your antics here on this Forum.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Did you even read my post? Or is this a continuation of your knee jerk attacks? No where did I there or ever post anything that advocates throwing up one's hand and becoming atheist.

If you read my post, part of the remedy should be evident.

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If you read my post, part of the remedy should be evident.
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I will go back and try to find your statements on this. Fair enough.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]======================================
As I've stated many times: I believe Jesus spoke the truth. It's unfortunate that the vast majority of Christians do not follow the teachings of Jesus. The world would be a much better place if they actually did.
=======================================

There you go again. What makes you think Jesus came t d ? No, they are well founded on the examples of your antics here on this Forum.[/b]

You made the following claims which are all unfounded. Why don't you substantiate any of them instead of just saying that they "are well founded". Your prevous posts were only made to accuse and attack.:
"I don't think ThinkOfOne is concerned about the sinning or victory of Christians.

I think he is concerned with honing in his skills with "Gotchya!" theology. He wants to put Christians in hog tie by selecting portions of the Bible he thinks present logically impossible dilemmas for believers.

I think he is interested in creating a "no way out" theological puzzle for believers in the Bible."

The teachings of Jesus were made while He walked the Earth. I find no reason to believe words put in His mouth by Paul or the followers of Paul seeing as the teachings of Paul often contradict the teachings of Jesus. From what I can tell, you believe in the Bible more than the teachings of Jesus. Jesus said to believe in Him. He did not say to believe in a book.

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]====================================
If you read my post, part of the remedy should be evident.
========================================

I will go back and try to find your statements on this. Fair enough.[/b]

While it's good that you will now take the time to read my post properly, the fact that you hadn't only underscores that point that you only sought to accuse and attack without addressing content. Little wonder that your accusations are unfounded.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
A couple of things come to mind:

1) Many Christians are taught and believe that it is impossible for them to stop committing sin. This goes against what Jesus taugt in John 8:32-36.

2) Many Christians are taught and believe that they have "eternal life" / "heaven" / "salvation" even though they continue to commit sin. Jesus never taught this and in he word of Jesus until such a transformation is complete.


Why do you think it so?

ThinkOfOne,

I looked at all your posts from the beginning of this topic and didn't see your remedies. I am going to assume that perhaps this is what you meant:


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1) Many Christians are taught and believe that it is impossible for them to stop committing sin. This goes against what Jesus taugt in John 8:32-36.
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Both in the Old Testament and in the New Testament the path to righteousness is a gradual transformation, a process.

" ... the path of the righteous is like the light of dawn, which shines brighter and brighter until the full day." (Prov. 4:18)

If you won't pay attention to what the Bible says perhaps you could get some help from a book like Pilgrim's Progress. And I would suggest that you pay special attention to the word there "PROGRESS"

There is no instantaneous freedom from all weaknesses, sins, trangressions, mistakes, errors, disobediences the instant one turns to God.

Proverbs 4:18 likens the growth of righteousness of a saint of God to be like the dawning sunrise. Does the SUN pop up to noon in one second ? Of course not. And the path of the godly seeker does neither

pop into sinless perfection in one magic moment but is a growth process of liberation.

"Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom. But we all with unvieled face beholding and reflecting as a mirrir the glory of the Lord ARE BEING TRANSFORMED FROM GLORY TO GLORY even as from the Lord Spirit." (2 Cor. 3:17,18)

This is PROGRESS. This is liberation through successive stages of transformation.

But wait a minute !! ThinkOfOne does not accept the letters of the Apostle Paul as the speaking of Christ. Contrary to Christ's promise to teach us through His apostles ThinkOfOne rejects Christ's post resurrection ministry through His apostle.

So be it. Let's find the equivalent in the "red letters" of the Gospel:

"And He said, So is the kingdom of God; as if a man cast seed on the earth, And sleeps and rises night and day, and the seed sprouts and lengthens - how, he does not know.

The earth bears fruit by itself: first a blade, then an ear, then the full grain in the ear. And then when the fruit is ripe, immediately he sends forth the sickle, because the harvest has come." (Mark 4:26-29)


If maturity and sinless perfection is symbolized by the HARVEST at ripeness, it does not come instantaneously with God's people. There is the kingdom in the stage of a seed. There is the kingdom in the stage of a lengthening sprout. There is the kingdom of God in the stage of it bearing fruit. There is still further growth of the kingdom in the stage of the blade, then the ear, then the full grain in the ear.

At each stage the GROWTH of the seed is a manifestation of a stage of God's kingdom, That is God's realm of reign and authority over people's lives.

ThinkOfOne thinks as soon as the seed hits the ground, one second latter, the harvest of the fully ripened grain pops up. This is against the principle of life. But ThinkofOne uses this concept to whip growing Christians with.

"Either you're free or your not free" says ThinkofOne. There is no room for life to grow and develop.

This is the kind of errors one gets from not really accepting all the teaching of Christ but selectively choosing only what fits one's preconceived religious concepts.

Originally posted by jaywill
ThinkOfOne,

I looked at all your posts from the beginning of this topic and didn't see your remedies. I am going to assume that perhaps this is what you meant:


[b]===================================
1) Many Christians are taught and believe that it is impossible for them to stop committing sin. This goes against what Jesus taugt in John 8:32-36. lectively choosing only what fits one's preconceived religious concepts.

[/b]For one, I never said that I posted the remedies. I stated that the remedies should be evident.

You responded to the following statement:
"1) Many Christians are taught and believe that it is impossible for them to stop committing sin. This goes against what Jesus taugt in John 8:32-36."

Where does it state or even imply that "the path to righteousness is [not] a gradual transformation, a process", that one will "pop into sinless perfection in one magic moment", etc.? I'd continue, but I doubt it'd be worth the effort to point them all out.

Once again, you seem to be so intent on accusing and attacking, that you have failed to properly read my post.

Originally posted by rwingett
Funny you should ask. Having just gotten it for Christmas, I am reading the second of Mr. Barker's books now. I have read other things by him before, in the Freedom From Religion Foundation's (FFRF) newsletter, so I am familiar with with Mr. Barker's story at least. But of course I was merely showing that there are 'conversion' stories on both sides of the issue.

A book on atheism for Christmas. How ironic!!

Originally posted by no1marauder
Children are different from adults in that an adult doesn't normally rely on "personal experience" when facts make that "personal experience" suspect. KM has decided he wants to think like a child.

Thanks for proving my point.

Personal experience IS personal experience and IS therefore fact.

The objection is diametrically opposed to, rather than proving your point, and I think KNIGHTMEISTER's premis remains to be anwered.

However you may take cold comfort with your usual pompous self congratulatory disaffirmation.

Originally posted by chappy1
A book on atheism for Christmas. How ironic!!

From my loving wife, who is also an atheist.

Originally posted by josephw
I can't prove that God exists to anyone but myself.

[b]"So I do not take you seriously here. How could I when you simply have no argument?"

I had no intention of arguing. I simply made a few statements and asked for thoughts about them.


The main idea though, is that I claim to know that God exists through experience.[/b]

The main idea though, is that I claim to know that God exists through experience.

So? I have no grounds for taking your claim seriously. Are you going to provide me with some, or what?

Originally posted by divegeester
Personal experience IS personal experience and IS therefore fact.

The objection is diametrically opposed to, rather than proving your point, and I think KNIGHTMEISTER's premis remains to be anwered.

However you may take cold comfort with your usual pompous self congratulatory disaffirmation.

So Santa really does exist! After all, "Personal experience IS personal experience and IS therefore fact" so the little girl's "personal experience" is sufficient "proof" that Santa is real.

The flaw in that "logic" is the same flaw that KM, you and others are making in this thread.

Originally posted by no1marauder
So Santa really does exist! After all, "Personal experience IS personal experience and IS therefore fact" so the little girl's "personal experience" is sufficient "proof" that Santa is real.

The flaw in that "logic" is the same flaw that KM, you and others are making in this thread.

Exactly, he does to the little girl who is just a little girl. Ever met an adult who believes in santa? I really can see what you are driving at but it's not a valid comparison.



Anyway no1, despite all this relatively pointless banter, I sincerely wish you and yours a happy and prosperous new year.

Better go as am getting feedback for being a chess nerd!🙂

Who pinchd my dink.??