26 Jul 09
Originally posted by josephwOk dude,no hurry.
[b]"Why is Christianity the only way?"
Precisely the right question. The problem is the answer.
I'll give you the only simple answer I can think of that gets right at the heart of it.
It has to do with WHO Jesus is.
Who is Jesus? Is or was He just an ordinary man? Yes and no.
I have to go now. It may be a couple of weeks before I get back. I'll look for your reply then. Take care.[/b]
So there was no-one else like Jesus in our history?
Why should I believe christian history over other religons' histories?
The proof is in the pudding as always and that which has been written about Jesus makes him seem like an extrodinarily 'special' person . The trouble is there are other accounts of other 'special' people from other cultures. Why are their stories not as valid as the Jesus story?
26 Jul 09
Originally posted by KellyJayDo you think it will be just a bother to burn in Hell ? It's torture pal. That's why it' can't come from a Good God. Nothing Good comes from Torture. Nothing Good would condone Torture. That's why the Christian concept of God, and Hell is more than wrong, it's evil.
Not as much as it will bother others to find out Jesus Christ was and
is the only answer and salvation for man.
Kelly
26 Jul 09
Originally posted by buckkyTHIS happened to you?! Please explain.
If you died, and found out that what takes place after death is radically different than what the Christian doctrine painted it to be......(my edit)...... I know it happened to me and it was like like being kicked out of the womb into an uncertain world.
27 Jul 09
1 edit
Originally posted by karoly aczel"Why are their stories not as valid as the Jesus story?"
Ok dude,no hurry.
So there was no-one else like Jesus in our history?
Why should I believe christian history over other religons' histories?
The proof is in the pudding as always and that which has been written about Jesus makes him seem like an extrodinarily 'special' person . The trouble is there are other accounts of other 'special' people from other cultures. Why are their stories not as valid as the Jesus story?
Another very good question. (Sorry for sounding condescending.)
Because theirs' are just stories. Myths. Fables. Fabrications of the imagination. Counterfeits. They fall short of the mark. Lies. Deceptions. Full of false promises.
Think about it for a moment. What other "religion", "faith", or "way", actually says that its' author was raised from the dead? Or promises you eternal life? Or true peace of mind? And then delivers on the promises made?
If I were you, and the same goes for anyone I speak to, I would make certain in my mind that Jesus is or isn't who He claims to be before I decide to write Him off as just another.
Jesus makes claims singularly exclusive to the degree that all others are made false. Now, He was either the biggest liar that ever lived, or He is who He claims to be. If Jesus IS who He claims to be, then whoever doesn't believe Him is spiritually dead.
God created us with incredible powers of thought and reason. Dig deep inside your soul. God will reveal Himself to you in the person of His Son Jesus Christ. You will know that you have eternal life through Him when you trust in Him. Then you will have peace. Guaranteed. Jesus never lies.
27 Jul 09
Originally posted by josephw"God will reveal 'himself'". Why not just leave it at that.
[b]"Why are their stories not as valid as the Jesus story?"
Another very good question. (Sorry for sounding condescending.)
Because theirs' are just stories. Myths. Fables. Fabrications of the imagination. Counterfeits. They fall short of the mark. Lies. Deceptions. Full of false promises.
Think about it for a moment. What other "religion", "fa ...[text shortened]... h Him when you trust in Him. Then you will have peace. Guaranteed. Jesus never lies.[/b]
So all other religons and claims of dieties of God are fake? Despite huge followings like christianity? Despite historical evidence?
You know what, I never lie either but I dont think myself the son of God . (anymore than say...you)
I resent statements like 'whoever doesn't believe Him is spiritually dead.' Thats just plain rude dude!
And, my contention is you can never really trust anyone else until you can trust yourself. And if you truly trust yourself then you have no need to trust Jesus because you will know the he and you are of the same essence.
And the 'space-brothers' would look down and smile and say "All is well with the Earth"
27 Jul 09
Originally posted by karoly aczel==================================
"God will reveal 'himself'". Why not just leave it at that.
So all other religons and claims of dieties of God are fake? Despite huge followings like christianity? Despite historical evidence?
You know what, I never lie either but I dont think myself the son of God . (anymore than say...you)
I resent statements like 'whoever doesn't believe Him ...[text shortened]... the 'space-brothers' would look down and smile and say "All is well with the Earth"
And, my contention is you can never really trust anyone else until you can trust yourself.
====================================
You may trust yourself and do many evil things. You may leave many wounded and hurt people behind you though you trusted yourself.
To take an extreme example, Hitler trusted himself very strongly. Who had more self confidence that Adolf Hitler? His trust in himself and in the motherland of Germany was huge.
But look at the tragic trail of human suffering, wreckage, and death he left. What did Hitler's gigantic self trust do for the world ?
==================================
And if you truly trust yourself then you have no need to trust Jesus because you will know the he and you are of the same essence.
======================================
Well, I think I need to trust in Jesus Christ. That is because Jesus Christ is unique among all human beings as the only Person totally absolute for the will of God, His Father.
No man (and there were a lot of good examples ) lived unto God with no thought of what it meant to himself, as Jesus did. He was absolute for the will of the Father.
So I need to trust such a Lord and Savior as Jesus. And the good news is that He is available for me today. But even more than that. His life can enter into my being, mingle with me, blend with me, and He can live again on the earth, but this time in me.
This is more than marvelous. This is more than revelutionary. Christ can live in me. Because .... "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
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And the 'space-brothers' would look down and smile and say "All is well with the Earth"
=============================
The space brothers, whoever they are, are mistaken.
We are on the TITANIC - proud, thinking we'll never go down, totally headed for damnation. And as the Gospel states we need to be saved.
You shoud view the world today as being the Titanic headed for a tragic cataclysmic rupture and sinking. Multitudes are ignorant of the disaster ahead of them. We are being warned in the Bible.
Or think of it this way. The holiness of God, the righteousness judgment of God , and the glory of God is to a sinful world like a hydrogen bomb.
The redemptive love of Jesus the Son of God is the only safe bomb shelter. The Bible urges us to come into the shelter.
27 Jul 09
Originally posted by BadwaterSo you're saying Earth is a "paradise", but remember Christ also called it His Kingdom, "My Kingdom is not of this world".
I don't believe in heaven or hell; neither really makes a lick of sense to me. Jesus talked of Paradise, not heaven, and hell sounds like a place that the living invented to make themselves feel better for the bad ones that got away with it.
No offense to the human populace at large, but there are zillions of people that are ok and may be going to your h ...[text shortened]... y, expires when we do. If that's the case then all this huffing and puffing counts for zero.
28 Jul 09
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillDid I say 'self'? I meant 'Self'. Although there is no 'self' apart from God . Our 'essence' or higher 'Self' does not hurt or wound anyone because it would be harming 'itself'.
[b]==================================
And, my contention is you can never really trust anyone else until you can trust yourself.
====================================
You may trust yourself and do many evil things. You may leave many wounded and hurt people behind you though you trusted yourself.
To take an extreme example, Hitler t e Son of God is the only safe bomb shelter. The Bible urges us to come into the shelter.[/b]
Hitler was mis-guided. His understanding of 'self' was a false one.
He had a limited , backward , delusional and ultimatly false understanding of 'self'. Even though Hitlers 'self' was the same essence as everybody elses his interpretation was false. As are most peoples. If people knew what the self was there would be no trouble.
Dont worry about the Titanic analogy-(its a good one) I'm already in the icy water... waiting for the others.
🙂
Dont worry about the space-brothers. They are cool with Jesus. They are cool with everyone.they wish us no harm. They are here to help the ones that jesus cannot get to!
28 Jul 09
1 edit
Originally posted by buckkyFirst off, I'm not your 'pal' I don't know you from Adam.
Do you think it will be just a bother to burn in Hell ? It's torture pal. That's why it' can't come from a Good God. Nothing Good comes from Torture. Nothing Good would condone Torture. That's why the Christian concept of God, and Hell is more than wrong, it's evil.
I also have to say that Hell as a punishment be it to your liking or
not does not follow that it is true or real simply because you don't like
the idea of it.
Kelly
28 Jul 09
1 edit
Originally posted by karoly aczel==========================================
Did I say 'self'? I meant 'Self'. Although there is no 'self' apart from God . Our 'essence' or higher 'Self' does not hurt or wound anyone because it would be harming 'itself'.
Hitler was mis-guided. His understanding of 'self' was a false one.
He had a limited , backward , delusional and ultimatly false understanding of 'self'. Even though Hitler hey wish us no harm. They are here to help the ones that jesus cannot get to!
Did I say 'self'? I meant 'Self'. Although there is no 'self' apart from God . Our 'essence' or higher 'Self' does not hurt or wound anyone because it would be harming 'itself'.
==============================================
Well, where do people live most of their life? Assuming for argument's sake that you are right that God and the higer self are the same thing, the majority of people are not living there in your higher self/God realm.
However, Jesus said that those who wanted to come after Him had to deny themself, pick up thier cross, and follow Him. Naturally if you follow your self here then, you cannot follow Christ.
Following Christ involves the enjoyment of something more rich than the enjoyment of following the self. It involves coming upon something, or Someone (God) more of exceeding preciousness and exceeding worth such that one is willing to lay down the self in order to pick up this superior product.
Deny the self, follow the Son of God. Paradoxically this denying the self to follow God leads surprisingly to truly "finding" the self.
Here's the whole quotation of this paradox:
"Then Jesus said to His disciples, If anyone wants to come after Me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me. For whoever wants to save his soul-life shall lose it; but whoever loses his soul-life for My sake shall find it." (Matt. 16:24,25)
By losing your soul-life in its God opposing and independent philosophy, eventually you will find you soul-life. By preserving your soul life to follow it and not Christ, you eventually will lose your soul-life. It is a paradox.
Christ teaches here that it is better to lose now and gain in the end than it is to gain now only to lose in the end.
===========================
Hitler was mis-guided.
============================
I totally agree. But look at the millions that had to suffer for his mistake.
========================
His understanding of 'self' was a false one.
He had a limited , backward , delusional and ultimatly false understanding of 'self'. Even though Hitlers 'self' was the same essence as everybody elses his interpretation was false. As are most peoples.
===============================
Is that another way of saying that he had no love?
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If people knew what the self was there would be no trouble.
=======================
Okay. But we have to identify why there should be a problem with this in the first place.
=================================
Dont worry about the Titanic analogy-(its a good one) I'm already in the icy water... waiting for the others.
===================================
I hope you get into a boat soon.
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Dont worry about the space-brothers. They are cool with Jesus. They are cool with everyone.they wish us no harm. They are here to help the ones that jesus cannot get to!
=============================
I don't know what you mean. I guess I missed your discussion of who the "space brothers" are.
Do you think aliens from outer space are here to help us ?
28 Jul 09
Originally posted by KellyJayYou have no idea as to the reality of Hell? You believe it's real because it appeals to you.You like the idea of Hell because you must have certain amount of Sadism in you. No normal minded individual would find Hell acceptable. You must be abnormal or just plain cruel.
First off, I'm not your 'pal' I don't know you from Adam.
I also have to say that Hell as a punishment be it to your liking or
not does not follow that it is true or real simply because you don't like
the idea of it.
Kelly
28 Jul 09
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJayWhat purpose does this punishment serve?
I also have to say that Hell as a punishment be it to your liking or
not does not follow that it is true or real simply because you don't like
the idea of it.
Kelly
Also I am led to believe that everyone deserves said punishment and only those who get forgiven by Jesus can avoid it. Also the forgiveness comes at a price. Sounds like some form of black mail to me.
28 Jul 09
Originally posted by twhitehead'Live by our rules otherwise you will be sent to hell.........but God does love you'.
What purpose does this punishment serve?
Also I am led to believe that everyone deserves said punishment and only those who get forgiven by Jesus can avoid it. Also the forgiveness comes at a price. Sounds like some form of black mail to me.
What sort of message is that? It is blackmail, and more than that it is a means of control.
Here are some lyrics of a song that best sum it up for me.
Religion is a business, 'cause there's money in sin
28 Jul 09
twhite says:
==============================
Also I am led to believe that everyone deserves said punishment and only those who get forgiven by Jesus can avoid it. Also the forgiveness comes at a price. Sounds like some form of black mail to me.
=====================================
Sounds like your ideas are a form of twisted prejudice to me.
Proper Knop writes:
==========================
'Live by our rules otherwise you will be sent to hell.........but God does love you'.
===============================
This also sounds like a warped and twisted prejudice stemming from a prefered ignorance of New Testament teaching.
These are the complaints of people who want to misunderstand the heart of God in as much of a warped fashion as imaginable.
By warping the Gospel message they can rationalize a seeming legitimacy to revolt against God's love and way of salvation.
If you attempt to draw their attention to a more accurate understanding of the New Testament message, they will not be willing. They are likely to protest something like "Well, we don't know what Jesus really said. We can't even be sure a Jesus ever lived."
Bringing their attention to a better understanding of the Bible meets with no willingness but resistance. They prefer to be prejudice. They prefer to bulster their prejudice with the worst of church history.
My way was to look for disciples of Jesus which encouraged my faith and gave me a reason to continue in the faith. People like twhiteehead and Proper Knop are diligently seeking religious people who will give them rationals not to repent, not to believe, not to trust the love of Christ.
Notice now the flood of reasonings to follow. Christ has come to die for thier sins out of His great love for them. They will react now with more reasons why it is more proper for them to reject Christ.
28 Jul 09
Originally posted by jaywillNotice how you have not given an alternative view to cure my ignorance. I have asked many many times on these forums what purpose the punishment serves and am yet to get a single answer. I fully realize that many Christians do not believe that hell is punishment at all, but my post was addressed to one who does believe it.
This also sounds like a warped and twisted prejudice stemming from a prefered ignorance of New Testament teaching.
Would you care to explain what purpose the punishment serves?