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Faith comes from the heart (Rom. 10:10), and God looks on the heart — not the actions (1 Sam. 16:7). Of course, God sees our actions and will deal with us about them, but only because they are inseparably linked to our hearts (Prov. 23:7). It's our hearts that really concern God, and faith in Him (trust, reliance) is what He is searching the heart for.
A person whose actions are not right but who trusts the Lord is more pleasing to God than an individual who is doing the right things but has no faith in God. It's not a case of those who act the best will get accepted, and those who act the worst get rejected. That would put some of the followers of other religions ahead of many Christians, but that is not what the Bible teaches.
This is exactly the point Paul is making in Romans 11:6: "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." That's old English for saying, "It's one way or the other but not a combination of the two." We're either saved by God's grace through what Jesus did for us, or we're saved by what we do without Jesus, but not a combination of the two. The choice should be the obvious.
Elijah is an example of a great man who lived a holy life and didn't earn God's pleasure with his actions. He made some serious mistakes. He ran in the face of persecution and became so depressed over it that he asked the Lord to kill him (1 Kin. 19). The Lord gave him three direct commands in an audible voice (1 Kin. 19:15-16), and Elijah never did two of them (refer to my teaching entitled "Elijah's Downfall?". Most people would think God couldn't have been pleased with Elijah, yet Elijah was translated.
Even though our heart conditions influence our actions, we all fail in our performance to some degree. Elijah did. If God used performance as the basis of whether or not He was pleased with us, no one would ever pass the test. "If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?" (Ps. 130:3).
Satan accuses people and says, "What makes you think God will use you?" The truth is that none of us are perfect, we don't deserve the blessings of God. Now I put my faith in Jesus. It's hard for some people to accept this. It has been ingrained in us that if we aren't holy, God won't bless us. When God looks at you, He doesn't see your goodness — He sees Jesus.
If you're walking in faith, you use faith as the rate of exchange between you and God. God is pleased with you even though your actions don't measure up. Your life may be a wreck, but God is still pleased with you. Our religion says that is hypocrisy. On the contrary, the worst sin is self-righteousness — the attitude that God owes it to you because you've been good.
The difficult thing is that there are no role models for grace. Your employer hires you based on performance. The parent-child relationship is based on performance, even though it shouldn't be. When it comes to God, your performance can't earn you anything. If you sin, you need a savior. It is your faith in Jesus that will grant you access to God.
Most people accept this level of grace when it pertains to salvation. However, some of you may think that after you're born again, God expects you to pray and study; and if you don't do these things, God won't bless you. After you are born again, it doesn't change! Colossians 2:6 says, "As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him." When we are born again, we come to Jesus just as we are. In fact, if a person has a lot of sin, it's even more reason to come to Jesus. When it comes to being healed, it's a different story with most Christians. They think if you haven't read your Bible today or you had a fight on the way to church, it will keep you from being healed. That's a double standard. That's saying that the way you approach God after you're born again is different. Your actions may not please God today, but you can be healed or delivered in spite of it.
You may think I'm advocating sin. I'm not — your actions are important to you. Your holiness is important because it changes your heart toward God and not God's heart toward you. Unholiness will hurt you. Even though God will love you just as much, you won't love God as much. It will harden your heart toward God. It's like eating. You must eat to stay alive, but eating is not life. If you miss one meal, will you die? If you constantly live in sin and never feed yourself spiritually, it will kill you. I am not saying you should ignore your actions. You will never do everything perfectly, but don't let it keep you from receiving the blessings of God.
Luke 22 shows us an example of someone who had faith and pleased God. In verses 31 and 32 Jesus is talking to Peter before the crucifixion. "And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren." Peter did blow it tremendously. He denied the Lord three times. He cursed and blasphemed God, and yet Jesus prayed that his faith wouldn't fail. Jesus' prayers were always answered. Peter's actions failed, but not his faith. If Peter hadn't repented it would have killed him. He was restored to God and went on to become a pillar of the church.
You may be thinking, This is great — I can live like the devil and still get what I want from God." If you think that, I'd say you aren't born again, because a Christian wants to please God. This word is for Christians who have a desire to serve God but who still sin. When that happens, you go on and catch up and stand there with confidence in your Savior. Your faith in Jesus pleases God. None of us get saved and head straight on the path to God. We bounce around, but we're still heading in the general direction.
"To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved" (Eph. 1:6). You do please God through your faith in Jesus as your Savior, and you must perceive that you please Him.
http://www.awmi.net/extra/article/pleases_god?op=makePrintable;
Originally posted by checkbaiterCut and paste is an admission that you dont know what you talking about.
Faith comes from the heart (Rom. 10:10), and God looks on the heart — not the actions (1 Sam. 16:7). Of course, God sees our actions and will deal with us about them, but only because they are inseparably linked to our hearts (Prov. 23:7). It's our hearts that really concern God, and faith in Him (trust, reliance) is what He is searching the heart for.
...[text shortened]... perceive that you please Him.
http://www.awmi.net/extra/article/pleases_god?op=makePrintable;
I never do that. I never cut and paste. I never post websites for you to read. I quote the Bible. If you cannot do that then you not up to the task of explaining what YOU believe.
I did not read your cut and paste, therefore I have no comment.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieLots of responses here.
The events that you are referring to are referring to a specific instance, whether or not it was incumbent upon the first century Christians to get circumcised.
The principle of remaining with law keeping as a basis of new covenant justification is the issue. The specifics may vary from legalist to legalist. The advocacy of eternal salvation through law keeping remains the constant reason for the legalist rejecting justification by faith.
To use this to promote a personal campaign of propaganda is quite insidious and promotes an amoral attitude that could trample once more on the sacrifice of the Christ as being worthless.
This thread was provoked by a comment from Rajkkk999 that was as wrong as it was insulting - something about me pulling my head out of certain other parts of my anatomy.
His comment had all the maturity of a junior high school boy's room argument. But that is besides the point. Rajk999 can be critiqued just as much as anybody else.
And his behavior toward the Gospel is I think what Paul called the behavior of "dogs" - probably referring symbolically to an unclean animal in the Levitical system.
Paul warned the Philippians to "beware of dogs, ... beware of the concision" referring to the legalistic opponents to the gospel of grace -
"Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the concision." (Phil 3:2,3)
This is to keep a watchful eye on certain religious workers. Paul is warning about Judaizers who sought to keep the Christians in slavery to the law of Moses as a means for new testament justification for eternal life. Paul said they were "evil workers" .
Furthermore since no conjunction is used between any of these three clauses, they must refer to the same class of people -
"Beware of the dogs,
beware of the evil workers,
beware of the concision ..."
If I am being insidious then I am being insidious in accordance to the Apostle Paul's warning.
The vehemence with which Rajk999 attacks justification by faith is precisely like the Judiazers troubling the church in Philippi.
I already mentioned that circumcision may not be Rajk999's agenda per se. But in principle it is mockery of those who believe justification by faith and exalting remaining under the principle of salvation through Law keeping.
"Evil doers" is the description of the word of God about such religionists, ... "dogs" suggesting lack of discernment and spiritual uncleaness.
Is this really what you want people to think?
One think you can think is that Rajk999 has no ground to accuse others of misrepresenting the Gospel while his behavior is firmly warned against.
I guess he doesn't bother you much, probably because your Jehovah's Witness preaching of "another Jesus" is also the advocacy of legalism.
That no matter how the act, they can trample upon the sacrifice of the Christ again and again? No? well you had better set your house in order and address the disparity between what is required of a Christian and what a Christian can expect if they treat the sacrifice of the Christ as a cheap get out clause for willful sin.
So says the crocodile tears of one whose chief concern is to replace the New Testament Son of God for the angel Michael. I have in this thread to deal with one heretic at a time. Right now, it is Rajk999 who is fond of making insulting remarks towards me.
So I call him into the light on substance.
Originally posted by sonshipLets look at this, here is a statement,
Lots of responses here.
The events that you are referring to are referring to a specific instance, whether or not it was incumbent upon the first century Christians to get circumcised.
The [b]principle of remaining with law keeping as a basis of new covenant justification is the issue. The specifics may vary from legalist t ...[text shortened]... is fond of making insulting remarks towards me.
So I call him into the light on substance.[/b]
it remains the constant reason for the legalise rejecting justification by faith.
No one is seeking to justify anything, there is no justification, everlasting life is a free gift, you cannot justify it either through works or through faith, it is a free gift. Yes you can try to please God. Did not the Christ please his father by being obedient to his will? Did not the Holy spirit descend in the form of a Dove and the father expressed his appreciation and approval for the son? I know that you believe it did as I and all other Christians do.
Faith without works is dead. What did the apostle mean? because there is no justification, as we know. Simply put that if your faith is devoid of works then it is like a dead body, lifeless. Again if you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ you will be saved. Is this an inducement for the Christian to do nothing, no it cannot be, for again the apostle tells us that even daemons believe. Without faith it is not possible to please God should not become, we are justified through faith, NO, there is no justification, salvation is a free gift. You must have works in order to be saved, NO, works are merely an indication that a faith is alive and well, for there is NO justification through works, life is a free gift.
So what is the man of faith to make of it except to find a balance between exercising his faith and Christian works. How does he do it? He has a public ministry which facilitates the exercise of his faith (where else are you called upon to such an extent to exercise your faith but to preach and teach strangers?) and facilitates good works (what greater work could there be than bringing someone to a knowledge of the Christ?) because he will have saved himself and those who listen to him.
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Originally posted by Rajk999
The book of Galatians is exhorting the Jews of Galatia to refrain from placing the LAW OF MOSES above the commandments of Christ.
More precisely Paul was fighting against people like you adhering to the Law of Moses above walking in the Spirit. Paul was perplexed that if they had STARTED in the Spirit why should they expect to continue and be perfected by fleshly legalism.
"This only I wish to learn rom you. Did you receive the Spirit out of the works of law or out of the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?" (Galatians 3:2,3)
This is the agenda that you push here with practically every comment you make on whatever subject is under discussion. It boils down to something like this -
" You Christians must be perfected not by the life giving Spirit that you initially received but by the effort of your law keeping flesh. Otherwise you will lose your eternal life. You will fail to keep the Law and will give the LOAN of eternal life back to the Lender - God."
You MOCK calling on the name of the Lord Jesus.
You perfectly align yourself to the typology of Ishmael MOCKING Issac as a symbol of the Law keeper mocking the recipient of new covenant grace.
"But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also is now." (Galatians 4:28)
You don't realize that every time you mock and ridicule Christians who believe in justification by faith you exactly reenact the mocking of Isaac the miraculously born, by Ishmael, the one born from Abraham's wayward fleshly effort.
Your mocking is also persecution.
Possibly reading the book of Galatians ALOUD and PRAYERFULLY might open your eyes.
The fact that Paul is explaining that the Law of Moses is no longer in effect does not grant you [and those like you] the leeway to remove as well, the Law and Gospel of Christ.
Galatians argues as I have been arguing - Walk by the Spirit and you will in no wise fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Galatians says the believers BEGAN in the life giving Spirit and they should CONTINUE walking in the same life giving Spirit.
And because you will not read long comments that is all I give you. I know your attention span is infantile in these matters.
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Originally posted by robbie carrobieIs this a quotation of me ?
Lets look at this, here is a statement,
it remains the constant reason for the legalise rejecting justification by faith.
No one is seeking to justify anything, there is no justification, everlasting life is a free gift, you cannot justify it either through works or through faith, it is a free gift. Yes you can try to please God. Did not th ...[text shortened]... e to a knowledge of the Christ?) because he will have saved himself and those who listen to him.
it remains the constant reason for the legalise rejecting justification by faith.
I would only type this as a typo.
Please cut and paste in this comment if I really wrote it.
Thanks.
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Originally posted by Rajk999
I never post websites for you to read.
[/b]
[b]Cut and paste is an admission that you dont know what you talking about.
Legalists like you often come up with ridiculous rules which they think necessarily hold true.
I never do that. I never cut and paste.
So what ?
What you write is often so embarrassingly wrong that you might have been somewhat dignified had you quoted someone.
I quote the Bible. If you cannot do that then you not up to the task of explaining what YOU believe.
You sometimes TWIST the Bible as Satan twisted it in tempting the Lord Jesus in the wilderness.
Next time you do it, I'll point out your twisting to you, not that it would do any good.
I did not read your cut and paste, therefore I have no comment.
Congradulations. Even a fool is deemed wise when he keeps his mouth shut.
Originally posted by sonshipFirst this 'mocking' foolishness which you harp on is of no relevance to me or anyone else. I disagree with your doctrine and you disagree with mine. I could moan and cry that you mock me but Im stronger than that and I have little tolerance for foolish crybaby behaviour. You have a little girl sissy mentality .. so grow up.The book of Galatians is exhorting the Jews of Galatia to refrain from placing the LAW OF MOSES above the commandments of Christ.
More precisely Paul was fighting against people like you adhering to the Law of Moses above walking in the Spirit. Paul was perplexed that if they had STARTED in the Spirit why should they expect to continue an ...[text shortened]... long comments that is all I give you. I know your attention span is infantile in these matters.
I could demolish everything you are saying with one sentence :
Following the commandments of Christ = walking in the Spirit = doing good works
You are ok with saying that those Christians who are justified by faith must also walk in the spirit. But you have this phobia when it comes to saying that you have to obey the commandments of Christ. But they are one and the same thing.
Next you are mistaken to think that all Christians who claim to have faith ALSO walk in the spirit. And this is where we disagree. You place all Christians on the same level with the assumption that ALL walk in the spirit because you believe that they automatically do so. The Bible does not support that. Each and every Christian have their own path to follow and all must make the effort to walk as Christ did ie in the Spirit and NOT in the flesh.
Two basic examples of what it takes to walk in the spirit are:
1. Do the good works which Christ said you MUST DO
2. Refrain from sin which the entire Bible is about - refraining from sin.
Now if you agree with that then the teachings of Paul and the teachings of Christ are in perfect harmony. Here is Paul:
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. (Galatians 5:14-25 KJV)
Notice that those who sin and walk after the flesh would not get into the Kingdom.
Originally posted by josephwWhat a fraud you are. I suggest that you should discuss your own agenda instead of someone else's and you get miffed. I'm not joining in your
No, that's not true. You know as well as I do that only atheists are qualified to discuss matters of spirituality.
theological discussions - just defending someone from the ignorant.
btw .. what's the "w" for Joseph?
Are you a Merchant Banker?
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Originally posted by sonshipMeaning as far as the world and religion is concerned. You must perform to stay employed, sports, etc. There is no role model for grace.The difficult thing is that there are no role models for grace.
What ???
Anyway, I did learn from you what it is like to read one of my looonng posts. Thanks for your labors.
Employers say if your performance is not up to par, your out. Religion is the same, do good works, tithe, come to church every Sunday, or you go to hell.
Originally posted by sonshipyou don't even know what you typed, what hope is there for you? Its a direct quotation from what you typed, here it is AGAIN.
Is this a quotation of me ?
it remains the constant reason for the legalise rejecting justification by faith.
I would only type this as a [b] typo.
Please cut and paste in this comment if I really wrote it.
Thanks.[/b]
remains the constant reason for the legalist rejecting justification by faith.
and to use it as a pretext to ignore what i did write is well reflective of someone uninterested in anything but their own propaganda. You expect others to read your texts which they seem to know better than you but you have not even the common decency to read what they have written. What a complete waste of time it is even trying to get you to reason. Sure continue your petty squabbles, I have given what appears to me to be a balanced approach to faith and works. I have no issues.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe balanced approach to faith and works .. correct. It is preached by Christ and all the Apostles.
you don't even know what you typed, what hope is there for you? Its a direct quotation from what you typed, here it is AGAIN.
remains the constant reason for the legalist rejecting justification by faith.
and to use it as a pretext to ignore what i did write is well reflective of someone uninterested in anything but their own propaganda. You ...[text shortened]... I have given what appears to me to be a balanced approach to faith and works. I have no issues.
Originally posted by Rajk999Why he has claimed a justification i cannot say he seems to be harbouring the idea that you profess believe in salvation through works, unless i picked him up wrong.
The balanced approach to faith and works .. correct. It is preached by Christ and all the Apostles.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSonship is a blooming moron. I have always maintained that a Christians path must be both faith and works. It cannot be faith alone and it cannot be works alone .. it is a balance as you say. That is for the Christian. Christians are called to a higher standard than the rest of the world mostly because they are the saints of Christ who will judge the world with Christ.
Why he has claimed a justification i cannot say he seems to be harbouring the idea that you profess believe in salvation through works, unless i picked him up wrong.
What I have also said which many dislike is that God is not so coldhearted and unfair to the rest of the world as to leave them out - Christ died for all of mankind. According Romans 2 those who live by no law are a law unto themselves and will by judged by their law. People have built into their conscience the knowledge of good and evil. Christ will also judge them. They also can be in Gods Kingdom but would not be considered saints of Christ