Re-writing Relativity

Originally posted by knightmeister
Yes , I can see how you could although the phrases inside or outside of time mean very little to me other than expressive terms because I don't believe time exists in the same way scotty does.

To me it's a bit like asking whether a painting can exist outside of beauty.

Inside or outside time, would be inside our outside the universe as I understand Scott's position, he may correct me if I misunderstood him. He has time as simply the passage of events within the universe, now if something isn't part of the universe's time, it isn't part of the universe as Scott has been arguing, since to be in the universe is to be bound by all its parts including the universe's time. That basically puts the boundaries to the limitless universe as has been argued here.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Inside or outside time, would be inside our outside the universe as I understand Scott's position, he may correct me if I misunderstood him. He has time as simply the passage of events within the universe, now if something isn't part of the universe's time, it isn't part of the universe as Scott has been arguing, since to be in the universe is to be bound b ...[text shortened]... hat basically puts the boundaries to the limitless universe as has been argued here.
Kelly

So for him , if God did exist , he would be part of the universe?
I thought that the prevailing scientific view was that the universe was an unimaginably dense singularity of energy/matter that has expanded via the big bang. This suggests to me that the universe is very much a thing like an explosion , very big explosion , but a simple explosion nonetheless.

Originally posted by knightmeister
So for him , if God did exist , he would be part of the universe?
I thought that the prevailing scientific view was that the universe was an unimaginably dense singularity of energy/matter that has expanded via the big bang. This suggests to me that the universe is very much a thing like an explosion , very big explosion , but a simple explosion nonetheless.

I will say this for this conversation it has made me think of the universe as much more limited now. If you do remove time from any equation when looking at length and breath of the universe it then becomes very limited regardless of its size, size would really be completely unimportant. If all time is meaningless to God, God would be able to watch all things at once from every molecule and all things smaller to each galaxy and all things larger, from all vantage points at once, without distraction, and I can only imagine apply pressure anywhere at all times or only when God felt the need. Small wonder why our will is so important to God, the splendor of what God is doing in creation I can only guess is beyond our wildest imagination.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I will say this for this conversation it has made me think of the universe as much more limited now. If you do remove time from any equation when looking at length and breath of the universe it then becomes very limited regardless of its size, size would really be completely unimportant. If all time is meaningless to God, God would be able to watch all thin ...[text shortened]... ndor of what God is doing in creation I can only guess is beyond our wildest imagination.
Kelly

Good. Seems like you two have just about got the whole of theoretical physics worked out in your heads then. I'll look forward to seeing the papers in press soon then, shall I? After all, your concepts bear no relationship to our current understanding of the universe.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Good. Seems like you two have just about got the whole of theoretical physics worked out in your heads then. I'll look forward to seeing the papers in press soon then, shall I? After all, your concepts bear no relationship to our current understanding of the universe.

I guess that is as good a cop out as we can get from you, see you in the funny papers.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I guess that is as good a cop out as we can get from you, see you in the funny papers.
Kelly

The thing is, you and KM go round and round spouting opinion which flies in the face of everything we know about the universe, and you try to be smug as only Christians can be about it. It's incredible how proud you can be of your own stupidity.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
The thing is, you and KM go round and round spouting opinion which flies in the face of everything we know about the universe, and you try to be smug as only Christians can be about it. It's incredible how proud you can be of your own stupidity.

NO, we question what you tell us! There is a huge difference, one is sticking your head in the sand and just accepting what is being spewed out as if you knew it were facts, the other is making those facts stand up. You have not given anything as far facts are concern about your views on time and the universe, outside of crying over that I have not written a paper on the subject, you have added nothing to this discussion either, outside of saying, no no it is this way, not that way.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
NO, we question what you tell us! There is a huge difference, one is sticking your head in the sand and just accepting what is being spewed out as if you knew it were facts, the other is making those facts stand up. You have not given anything as far facts are concern about your views on time and the universe, outside of crying over that I have not written ...[text shortened]... nothing to this discussion either, outside of saying, no no it is this way, not that way.
Kelly

What a load of rubbish. I have stated quite clearly the mainstream understanding of theoretical physics. You have spouted opinion. You have tried to un-knit time and space, and I've told you before, that is not compatible with the theory of relativity as it stands. However, feel free to give us a new theory, which better explains the universe.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
What a load of rubbish. I have stated quite clearly the mainstream understanding of theoretical physics. You have spouted opinion. You have tried to un-knit time and space, and I've told you before, that is not compatible with the theory of relativity as it stands. However, feel free to give us a new theory, which better explains the universe.

You have stated opinion, nothing more, you want to dress it up as somthing other than that, it is up to you. Now if you can show that there wasn't any way time could a factor before a BB, I'd be interesting in reading it. Otherwise you have nothing but a opinion and belief too, your just to full of yourself if you cannot see it.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
You have stated opinion, nothing more, you want to dress it up as somthing other than that, it is up to you. Now if you can show that there wasn't any way time could a factor before a BB, I'd be interesting in reading it. Otherwise you have nothing but a opinion and belief too, your just to full of yourself if you cannot see it.
Kelly

Go read "A brief History of Time" or similar, then come back.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Go read "A brief History of Time" or similar, then come back.

Write something yourself, we are already here.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Write something yourself, we are already here.
Kelly

Mainly because you won't believe what I say. Perhaps you'll believe it when Prof Hawkings tells you the same thing - but I doubt it, it contradicts what your local chaplain tells you,

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Mainly because you won't believe what I say. Perhaps you'll believe it when Prof Hawkings tells you the same thing - but I doubt it, it contradicts what your local chaplain tells you,

More of the same with you now days eh? Will not write out your own beliefs, must have another think for you, you have your own version of local chaptain. You just don't see the forest for all the trees.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
More of the same with you now days eh? Will not write out your own beliefs, must have another think for you, you have your own version of local chaptain. You just don't see the forest for all the trees.
Kelly

"Beliefs" have got nothing to do with reality. I trust experiments and not my own "gut feeling" for that. I trust that guys like Einstein, Hubble, and Newton knew what they were talking about, and I chose to believe them, based upon the fact that their work describes the way the universe operates so well.

I don't need another to "think for me" (although you are just as guilty of that), I believe in another's work if it passes muster with what I know and it makes logical sense. You seem to just believe in what you read out of some book, with little or no critical thinking of your own, and certainly no relationship with reality.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
The thing is, you and KM go round and round spouting opinion which flies in the face of everything we know about the universe, and you try to be smug as only Christians can be about it. It's incredible how proud you can be of your own stupidity.

And saying that something can come from nothing CONFORMS with everything we know about the universe then? Answer the nothing-o-tron scenario if you think your views so conformist.