Spirituality
28 Apr 13
28 Apr 13
Originally posted by menace71It is good to read the Bible daily. It is the spiritual food we all need.
I think many here speculate on what the bible really says my challenge is if you even care is to read it for your self don't take what anyone says here about it without reading it for yourself
Manny
But the challenge is interesting as we have all been influnced by outside sources whether it is from a church or what we've read or even just heard from others.
In fact the Bible says that we "cannot lean upon our own understanding" so this would indicate that we have to learn from others and hopefully those other persons would have the correct knowledge and would be used by god to teach and in turn for us to learn correctly just as he has done many times in the past...
28 Apr 13
Originally posted by galveston75So are you saying that just reading the bible is not enough? I agree that it helps to have good teachers to help but that does not change that fact that people need to just read it and God can use it
It is good to read the Bible daily. It is the spiritual food we all need.
But the challenge is interesting as we have all been influnced by outside sources whether it is from a church or what we've read or even just heard from others.
In fact the Bible says that we "cannot lean upon our own understanding" so this would indicate that we have to learn ...[text shortened]... to teach and in turn for us to learn correctly just as he has done many times in the past...
Manny
28 Apr 13
Originally posted by galveston75No. This just lends more credence to your theory that you MUST be 'part of a cult' to get to Heaven.
It is good to read the Bible daily. It is the spiritual food we all need.
But the challenge is interesting as we have all been influnced by outside sources whether it is from a church or what we've read or even just heard from others.
In fact the Bible says that we "cannot lean upon our own understanding" so this would indicate that we have to learn ...[text shortened]... to teach and in turn for us to learn correctly just as he has done many times in the past...
I would suggest that if people do have questions (and who wouldn't? ) they take them to clergy in their community. Do keep in mind that they are only human though and tend to add in their own bias, so get many views before deciding what is true.
Gman, can you rummage around and give me an actual verse where this often-quoted "cannot lean upon our own understanding" comes from? Thanks.
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28 Apr 13
I agree, one needs to read the bible himself and digest it, ask God to open their understanding of it. But even the Ethiopian needed guidance:
Acts 8:30-32
30 So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah, and said, "Do you understand what you are reading?"
31 And he said, "How can I, unless someone guides me?" And he asked Philip to come up and sit with him. 32 The place in the Scripture which he read was this:
NKJV
28 Apr 13
1 edit
Originally posted by menace71Nope not saying that at all. I said the Bible itself says that we cannot "lean upon our own understanding" on spiritual matters.
So are you saying that just reading the bible is not enough? I agree that it helps to have good teachers to help but that does not change that fact that people need to just read it and God can use it
Manny
We do not have that ability to just pick up the bible and learn it all and able to understand it with our own mental abilities, we can't because there are a few things to consider.
First it would pretty much mean we would all "get it" and we would no doubt all believe the same.
No different then some book saying that 1+1=2. Everyone with any normal mental abilities would see that and we would all agree. Right?
But since we all don't agree on the Bible, especially on the deeper subjects, that clearly shows that it's just not possible to pick it up and sit in our bed at night and read it and understand all that's in it.
Again God knew exactly what he was doing when he had it written. He is searching the hearts of men and if he see's that good heart condition in a person he then begins to let them see with understanding.
And secondly Jesus himself set up the teaching work that we are supposed to be doing if we indeed are a true follower of him. He knew that it is impossible to learn and understand what his Father has said in the Bible on our own.
If that were not the case then Jesus would have done his work in another way. Maybe just have his diciples write a few notes on a bunch of scrolls and just pass them out or leave them in the local hangouts or maybe in the nightstands of the local motels?
But no that is not what he did. All of his followers were to become very well equiped and trained preachers first and then teachers.
Why was that? Because Jesus did not just leave it up to chance that by luck someone might get it right with their grasping his messages on their own. He knew it could not happen because of the way God is searching for true followers.
So yes a person can pick up the Bible and can get some good out of it. But the Bible says "not to forsake the gathering of ourselves as many have the custom" and that "when two or more gather in my name" is when his spirit will be to direct what they learn.
Too many scriptures and events in the past show we have to be with his people in a setting where it is condusive for God's spirit to be active to help us learn. We need more then just our own ability to truly learn...
28 Apr 13
Originally posted by galveston75What you really mean is we would like to become like what we think a god would be like, since we have none at home.
Nope not saying that at all. I said the Bible itself says that we cannot "lean upon our own understanding" on spiritual matters.
We do not have that ability to just pick up the bible and learn it all and able to understand it with our own mental abilities, we can't because there are a few things to consider.
First it would pretty much mean we would ...[text shortened]... active to help us learn. We need more then just our own ability to truly learn...
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28 Apr 13
2 edits
Originally posted by menace71G75's response has a point even if you don't agree with him about how he handles the situation behind it. None of us come to the moment when we start to read the entire Bible, without preconditioning, such as by learning certain definitions of certain words, then seeing those words, or others we have not learned definitions of, in the Bible. Some of also may have been taught, consciously or not, to look for deeper meanings in things than others have, say, if we were given mystery stories to read as a child.
So are you saying that just reading the bible is not enough? I agree that it helps to have good teachers to help but that does not change that fact that people need to just read it and God can use it
Manny
So we will rely on outside influences. Readers supply part of the meaning to what they read, and they do that according to the experiences they have had. There is nothing intrinsically different about drawing on further influences while engaged in reading the Bible.
28 Apr 13
1 edit
Originally posted by SuzianneTrust in the Lord with all your heart,
No. This just lends more credence to your theory that you MUST be 'part of a cult' to get to Heaven.
I would suggest that if people do have questions (and who wouldn't? ) they take them to clergy in their community. Do keep in mind that they are only human though and tend to add in their own bias, so get many views before deciding what is true.
Gman ...[text shortened]... verse where this often-quoted "cannot lean upon our own understanding" comes from? Thanks.
And lean not on your own understanding;
In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He shall direct your paths.
(Proverb 3:5-6 NKJV)
The JWs take this out of context and apply it to mean one should get their spiritual understanding only from the Watchtower Society, God's mouthpiece on Earth.
29 Apr 13
Originally posted by checkbaiterOf course I agree you can intellectually understand the bible but the Spirit Of God will illumine it for those who ask it is also a spiritual book
I agree, one needs to read the bible himself and digest it, ask God to open their understanding of it. But even the Ethiopian needed guidance:
Acts 8:30-32
30 So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah, and said, "Do you understand what you are reading?"
31 And he said, "How can I, unless someone guides me?" And he asked Ph ...[text shortened]... lip to come up and sit with him. 32 The place in the Scripture which he read was this:
NKJV
Manny