Reasons for disbelief in the Christian God

@dj2becker said
Assuming the child is an innocent they get to spend an eternity of bliss in Heaven after death so that more than makes up for a little bit of suffering. Within the context of atheism what hope is there for this child and it’s grieving family members?

Is suffering good or bad?
(regardless of quantity)

@ghost-of-a-duke said
6. My encounters with some Christians who claim to have been transformed internally by their God (in a good way) and yet still do and say appalling things. Take this recent post by Eladar for example:

'I recognize that I may be heading to hell and I do not care if you or any other person burns in hell. That is between you and God, not me.'



Note the contrast ...[text shortened]... do not care if you burn in hell' and the words of Jesus, 'Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.'

My encouters I've seen the same and worse, it could be due to those that are just wrapping themselves up in religion to get something out of it for themselves, or God is still working on them in their sanctification. What separates Christians from non-Christians is God within, so I don't spend to much time trying to figure who is who, Jesus will sort it out in the end.

If you look at the Scribes and Pharisees they wanted the praise of men over God, and God gave it to them in religion, and others get it elsewhere. There are people within religion whose religious position gives them all they and want. That could be a position of someone in leadership, or someone simply sitting down each time they go to church but it is nothing more than a lifeless duty, they are surrounding themselves with people singing and talking about God, than sadly still miss God.

The Scribes and Pharisees ended up killing Jesus even after seeing the things He did and heard Him speak. So watching people let each down is no different inside the church than it is outside, there are all kinds inside and outside some real others not so much.

The real question is what do we do with Jesus, do we watch others or follow Him? It will not matter if there are hypocrites between us and God, the only thing that shows us that even some hypocrites are closer to God than we are.

@wolfgang59 said
Is suffering good or bad?
(regardless of quantity)

Personally I have to say the suffering I have had in life has helped me get a better grip on life. The good or bad will be the outcome of it, not the suffering itself, you can get a lot of pleasure in life and it could ruin and kill you.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Sorry to hear you equate life with grass. I have already stated life is precious, despite being transitory.

The eternal compared to our life times if this is all there is, it is but a fleeting moment. Even in my faith, we are told our lives here is no different in time, but unlike your beliefs, there is the ever lasting, there is much more.

Steven Curtis Chapman's song:

More to this life
But there's more to this life than living and dying,
More than just trying to make it through the day;
More to this life, more than these eyes alone can see,
And there's more than this life alone can be.

@kellyjay said
Steven Curtis Chapman's song:

More to this life
But there's more to this life than living and dying,
More than just trying to make it through the day;
More to this life, more than these eyes alone can see,
And there's more than this life alone can be.

If these assertions give him solace and purpose, then Steven Curtis Chapman is doing no one any harm. But I don't envy his take on life. Is he a believer reaching out to people filling their emptiness with religious beliefs like he is, or is he a non-believer conman preying on Christians with mawkish songs that cater to their pessimism and misanthropy?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
A little bit of suffering?

You are genuinely a messed up individual.

A bit of suffering compared to an eternity of bliss, yes.

@kellyjay said
Even in my faith, we are told our lives here is no different in time, but unlike your beliefs, there is the ever lasting, there is much more.

If you could establish that this "much more" actually exists ~ and offer something more substantial than the certainty and sincerity of your personal speculation and opinions ~ it would be very interesting. Alas, you can't.

@dj2becker said
A bit of suffering compared to an eternity of bliss, yes.

We were discussing an innocent child suffering a terminal illness. For you to flippantly downgrade this to a 'little bit of suffering' testifies to the profound decay inside of you.

Seek help.

@kellyjay said
The eternal compared to our life times if this is all there is, it is but a fleeting moment. Even in my faith, we are told our lives here is no different in time, but unlike your beliefs, there is the ever lasting, there is much more.

Steven Curtis Chapman's song:

More to this life
But there's more to this life than living and dying,
More than just trying to m ...[text shortened]... ore to this life, more than these eyes alone can see,
And there's more than this life alone can be.

'You must live in the present, launch yourself on every wave, find your eternity in each moment. Fools stand on their island opportunities and look toward another land. There is no other land, there is no other life but this.'

Henry David Thoreau

@ghost-of-a-duke said
'You must live in the present, launch yourself on every wave, find your eternity in each moment. Fools stand on their island opportunities and look toward another land. There is no other land, there is no other life but this.'

Henry David Thoreau

If Jesus looked forward for the joy before Him, and He our example why shouldn’t we? Hebrews 12:2

@ghost-of-a-duke said
'You must live in the present, launch yourself on every wave, find your eternity in each moment. Fools stand on their island opportunities and look toward another land. There is no other land, there is no other life but this.'

Henry David Thoreau

The issue you have with what you are attempting is disproving an Absolute, with a variable, since there is not an agreement with what you are suggesting! Then if you were to find an absolute to use your argument, it then falls on its face. Just like making a truth statement about there being no such thing as truth.

I believe in absolutes, absolutely is better than there is no such thing as an absolute and we know that absolutely!

@kellyjay said
The issue you have with what you are attempting is disproving an Absolute, with a variable, since there is not an agreement with what you are suggesting! Then if you were to find an absolute to use your argument, it then falls on its face. Just like making a truth statement about there being no such thing as truth.

I believe in absolutes, absolutely is better than there is no such thing as an absolute and we know that absolutely!

The only absolute is 'today' - the here and now.

If you want to waste today speculating about tomorrow, knock yourself out.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
We were discussing an innocent child suffering a terminal illness. For you to flippantly downgrade this to a 'little bit of suffering' testifies to the profound decay inside of you.

Seek help.

You missed the point. The ‘bit of suffering’ is in comparison to an eternity of bliss. Also, based on which absolute moral standard would it always be wrong for a child to suffer? If atheism is true there are no moral absolutes so you have no legitimate argument to start off with. All things work together for the good for those who believe. That is real hope in a hopeless situation. What hope does atheism offer in this case? Your dodge to this question is noted.

@dj2becker said
You missed the point. The ‘bit of suffering’ is in comparison to an eternity of bliss. Also, based on which absolute moral standard would it always be wrong for a child to suffer? If atheism is true there are no moral absolutes so you have no legitimate argument to start off with. All things work together for the good for those who believe. That is real hope in a hopeless situation. What hope does atheism offer in this case? Your dodge to this question is noted.

You appear stuck in a perpetual spiral of absurdity.

Your inhumanity to the question put to you is noted.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
The only absolute is 'today' - the here and now.

If you want to waste today speculating about tomorrow, knock yourself out.

You are moving the goal posts here! Even your new example is flawed since all of us are aware of our past, and each new moment puts us somewhere else in time.

So far I think you have not shown anything to suggest God isn’t real in the most absolute of reality. Outside of your personal preferences what have you to offer?