Originally posted by divegeesterCan you stick to the matter at hand instead of merely parroting the dogma that you've been taught? I've already conceded that I imagined that you know it forwards and backwards.
The gospel does not teach that Christians will never sin. You are no Christian, you are a troll.
Once again:
That is completely incorrect.
What in your mind IS "completely correct"?
In fact it is so incorrect and ignorant of the gospel that I doubt you are even a Christian yourself and are just trolling along.
THE gospel are the words that Jesus spoke while He walked the Earth.
But it would seem that you have something else in mind. What in your mind is "the gospel"?
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneDive is one of those who believes that he has eternal life already., along with sonship and josephw, and not even God has the ability to take that away. To get that all they had to do was proclaim their faith with their mouth and they are saved eternally [Romans 10:9], which is additionally supported by the verse which states that God is pleased with those who believe in his son. So they have a doctrne based on belief / faith with their mouth.
Jesus was speaking the will of God, but the fact remains that there are many verses and passages where Jesus speaks of understanding, believing, following and / or keeping His word.
Here's but one example:John 8
51“Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he will never see death.”
You can continue to pretend that this isn't the case, but Jesus said what He said. How is it that you don't know that?
Additionally there are some who claim that they are in the Dispensation / Gospel of Grace, which effectively puts Jesus in the Old Testament with the Old Law, which removes His teachings from their doctrine.
Its cool. They get to do as they please while claiming that they will / must do good works because they have Gods Spirit and they cannot sin [in the spirit] ... whatever that means. Its all very shady.
04 Jan 17
2 edits
Originally posted by twhiteheadIt's not the "his version/her version" that bothers me.
I seriously do not think he is being a troll. I do find your response interesting though. It seems to have upset you. So if he is trolling, its working very well.
Why don't you ask him to explain, and you explain your version?
I think the majority of Christians follow a basic set of tenets and some have their own "flavors" of it. I don't see much difference between basic Christian ideals here, even though some tout the differences as "deal-breaking" mainly as an "I'm right, so you're wrong" kind of debating thing.
What gets me is the basic level of arrogance and "I'm right, so you're an idiot" that goes on here. Christian debate has always been a "thing" and leads to lively discussions among Christians and because of the differences, we're exposed to more ideas and ways to live day-to-day, hopefully without denigration and denunciation. Granted, it happens more here simply because that is the nature of discussions on this particular website. But the sheer volume of the "you're an idiot, no, you're an idiot" that goes on here resembles the same erosion of civil discourse infecting the USA lately. Along with this is the "holier than thou" comments that go on here, on top of the basic disagreements.
tl;dr: Disagreements I get, it happens every time Christians from more than one denomination get together. I can really, really do without the attitudes that come with it, though. People are not idiots for not believing everything you believe, in exactly the way you believe it. And all the assuming that goes on here would be enough to make Jesus himself turn over our tables in disgust. I see precious little love here, which should be the underlying basis for Christian debate. Christians of every "stripe" should agree on the core tenets: Christ came so that man might have "salvation" and that love for our neighbor is second only to our love for God. Everything else is "flavor" and we shouldn't be calling each other names because one person prefers chocolate while another prefers strawberry.
Disclaimer: Before somebody jumps on me for it, any "you" (or "our" or "we" ) in this reply is a generic "you" and not directed at twhitehead. Yes, I understand he's not a Christian. I replied to his post because this set off what I wanted to talk about.
04 Jan 17
Originally posted by twhiteheadI'm not upset, I'm just making an observation. I have never met a Christian who claims that he does not sin. TOO is trolling Christians by claiming they should not be sinning simply because they are a Christian. It's argumentative if not trolling. I'm calling it as I see it.
I seriously do not think he is being a troll. I do find your response interesting though. It seems to have upset you. So if he is trolling, its working very well.
Why don't you ask him to explain, and you explain your version?
Originally posted by Rajk999Claiming that the bible teaches that being a Christian means you cannot sin is incorrect. Simple. You can support that claim if you wish but I'll call you a non Christian because there is no one who does not sin. TOO is a non Christian who is trolling chaney3 because Chaney3 is semi-ignorant, confused and prone to bite like a rabid dog.
Dive is one of those who believes that he has eternal life already., along with sonship and josephw, and not even God has the ability to take that away. To get that all they had to do was proclaim their faith with their mouth and they are saved eternally [Romans 10:9], which is additionally supported by the verse which states that God is pleased with those w ...[text shortened]... ve Gods Spirit and they cannot sin [in the spirit] ... whatever that means. Its all very shady.
04 Jan 17
Originally posted by divegeesterPart of the reason for all this is the claim by some Christians that they dont have to account for sin ie sin would not be held against them, or they can sin and still get into the Kingdom of God.
Claiming that the bible teaches that being a Christian means you cannot sin is incorrect. Simple. You can support that claim if you wish but I'll call you a non Christian because there is no one who does not sin. TOO is a non Christian who is trolling chaney3 because Chaney3 is semi-ignorant, confused and prone to bite like a rabid dog.
All that is contrary to the teachings of Christ and the Aposltes. ToO is just using the most direct of these statements. Just as I would not doubt that the Bible says that Christians will sin and there may be room for forgiveness, you cannot doubt the words of Jesus. in John 8:34.
I remember GoDuke saying that there is a difference between perfection and striving for perfection, in response to someone saying that nobody is perfect.. Christians appear to throw up their hands and resign themselves to the fact that they are human and that they will sin. There is therefore no effort on their part to follow the commandments of Christ. In fact every effort is made to avoid discussion on these commandments.
Jesus wants his disciples to strive for perfection, to strive to avoid sin, to strive to follow his commandments. The negative attitude and lack of effort of Christians goes completely against Christ.
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04 Jan 17
Originally posted by Rajk999When Jesus asked for the person without sin to cast the first stone, he knew that even the best of men were not free of sin. I think it is clear that Jesus does not reject sinners but does expect them to 'actively' endeavour to overcome their sinfulness.
Part of the reason for all this is the claim by some Christians that they dont have to account for sin ie sin would not be held against them, or they can sin and still get into the Kingdom of God.
All that is contrary to the teachings of Christ and the Aposltes. ToO is just using the most direct of these statements. Just as I would not doubt that the Bibl ...[text shortened]... andments. The negative attitude and lack of effort of Christians goes completely against Christ.
04 Jan 17
Originally posted by Rajk999There is no excuse for promoting error.
Part of the reason for all this is the claim by some Christians that they dont have to account for sin ie sin would not be held against them, or they can sin and still get into the Kingdom of God.
All that is contrary to the teachings of Christ and the Aposltes. ToO is just using the most direct of these statements. Just as I would not doubt that the Bibl ...[text shortened]... andments. The negative attitude and lack of effort of Christians goes completely against Christ.
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeIs there a word for the opposite of actively endeavoring ?
When Jesus asked for the person without sin to cast the first stone, he knew that even the best of men were not free of sin. I think it is clear that Jesus does not reject sinners but does expect them to 'actively' endeavour to overcome their sinfulness.
Because thats the word for the attitude of some Christians.
05 Jan 17
3 edits
Let's see.
I posted some of the words of Jesus from John 8. C3 asked me to tell him what Jesus was saying there. I posted an extremely straightforward synopsis.
DG made the claim that the synopsis is "completely incorrect".
If that were true, then DG would have no problem in show exactly how I misrepresented the words and phrases of Jesus from John 8 and provide what he believes to be the "correct" representation of those words and phrases.
Thus far he has not. I imagine that if he were able to do so, he would.
Since DG hasn't shown that he is able to do so, is there anyone who can?
Thus far his responses have amounted to no more than unsubstantiated claims, false claims and personal attacks.
05 Jan 17
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterTOO is trolling Christians by claiming they should not be sinning simply because they are a Christian.
I'm not upset, I'm just making an observation. I have never met a Christian who claims that he does not sin. TOO is trolling Christians by claiming they should not be sinning simply because they are a Christian. It's argumentative if not trolling. I'm calling it as I see it.
I provided a synopsis of some of the words of Jesus from John 8. This is a gross mischaracterization. I made no such claim
05 Jan 17
6 edits
Originally posted by divegeesterTOO is a non Christian who is trolling chaney3 because Chaney3 is semi-ignorant, confused and prone to bite like a rabid dog.
Claiming that the bible teaches that being a Christian means you cannot sin is incorrect. Simple. You can support that claim if you wish but I'll call you a non Christian because there is no one who does not sin. TOO is a non Christian who is trolling chaney3 because Chaney3 is semi-ignorant, confused and prone to bite like a rabid dog.
I am not trolling C3, C3 even said that he didn't think I trolling.
It's not enough that you launch personal attacks on me, you felt it necessary to launch one here against C3 as a part of your beef with me?
If anyone has been trolling C3 it is you. Not sure there is a better word for your ongoing attacks on C3 that have been going on for months now.
05 Jan 17
1 edit
Originally posted by whodeyI hope you have no real power... just internet fluff. I really do. You are just atrocious, backward thinking, unhelpful...while you throw olive branches back into people's faces regularly .
I pray that all Christians come to the realization that trusting in man leads to ruin no matter which party you have soul your collective souls to.
This is why is made God sad when the Hebrews demanded a king.
The more power they have, the more damage they do.