Richard Dawkins stumped!

Originally posted by Proper Knob
[b]DNA and genetic mutations, cannot function as they do (in complex ways) without the driver (intelligence) which is non material and a cousin to the spiritual.

Would you care to elaborate?! It sounds interesting.[/b]

Genes collaborate with hundreds of other genes, in proramming the development process, that culminates in a body.

So intelligence is instructing the genes how to program, that intelligence guides the gene, to go this way, and not the other way.

If this intelligence does not drive the gene correctly, then you end up with an aberation.

Vishva

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Genes collaborate with hundreds of other genes, in proramming the development process, that culminates in a body.

So intelligence is instructing the genes how to program, that intelligence guides the gene, to go this way, and not the other way.

If this intelligence does not drive the gene correctly, then you end up with an aberation.

Vishva

So you agree there can be copying errors during DNA relplication?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
So you agree there can be copying errors during DNA relplication?

Call me cynical but I'm getting the impression that

"If this intelligence does not drive the gene correctly, then you end up with an aberation."

is Vishva's idea of reductio ad absurdum, and thus(?) "proving" that evolution is driven by spiritual intelligence (whatever that means!). In otherwords he probably doesn't agree 😛

Originally posted by Proper Knob
So you agree there can be copying errors during DNA relplication?

I am not a microbioligist, but the intelligence never gets it wrong, and if there is an "error" then the aberation is caused by some foreign influence. eg. pesticides or something else unseen.

vishva

Originally posted by vishvahetu
I am not a microbioligist, but the intelligence never gets it wrong ...

And how did you come to know this? Was it your spiritual insight again?

and if there is an "error" then the aberation is caused by some foreign influence. eg. pesticides or something else unseen.
What about things that can be seen? We know of quite a few chemicals that cause DNA damage or copying errors as well as other well known things like radiation.

So do you admit that it is conceivably possible that one of these copying errors could be beneficial to an organism?

Originally posted by twhitehead
And how did you come to know this? Was it your spiritual insight again?

[b]and if there is an "error" then the aberation is caused by some foreign influence. eg. pesticides or something else unseen.
What about things that can be seen? We know of quite a few chemicals that cause DNA damage or copying errors as well as other well known things like r ...[text shortened]... t is conceivably possible that one of these copying errors could be beneficial to an organism?[/b]

If radiation, affects the organism, in a benificial way, then it was meant to in the first place.
Are you refering to radiation that srinks a tumor.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
If radiation, affects the organism, in a benificial way, then it was meant to in the first place.
Are you refering to radiation that srinks a tumor.

I was referring to similar types of radiation yes. It shrinks a tumor because it damages the cells. But there are many similar effects in nature such sunlight that causes sunburn, nuclear fallout after a nuclear bomb etc.

So are you denying that it is possible for a DNA copying error caused at random by some form of radiation or chemical can result in a benefit to the organism?

Originally posted by twhitehead
I was referring to similar types of radiation yes. It shrinks a tumor because it damages the cells. But there are many similar effects in nature such sunlight that causes sunburn, nuclear fallout after a nuclear bomb etc.

So are you denying that it is possible for a DNA copying error caused at random by some form of radiation or chemical can result in a benefit to the organism?

If a copying error occurs, due to some random chemical or radiation, and it cause a benificial affect, then i cant deny or support it, until i know what the imagined benificial affect is.

Can you give an example of that occuring.

vishva

Originally posted by vishvahetu
If a copying error occurs, due to some random chemical or radiation, and it cause a benificial affect, then i cant deny or support it, until i know what the imagined benificial affect is.

Can you give an example of that occuring.

vishva

Well for example, suppose a single base pair on a strand of DNA were to change to a different pair, and suppose that the result was that the human receiving that change became more resistant to malaria.

Would it be possible for such a mutation to occur due to radiation or chemicals or other such random causes not driven by intelligence?

Originally posted by twhitehead
Well for example, suppose a single base pair on a strand of DNA were to change to a different pair, and suppose that the result was that the human receiving that change became more resistant to malaria.

Would it be possible for such a mutation to occur due to radiation or chemicals or other such random causes not driven by intelligence?

Ok, i see, so someone introduces something into the system and at the DNA level, it changes the normal order of things, and that has a benificial affect in making the person more resistant to malaria.

Well it took a person to introduce it into the system after much investigation, and the person is intelligent, so intelligence is still in the equation.

I am aware that scientist can manipulate matter.

vishva

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Ok, i see, so someone introduces something into the system and at the DNA level, it changes the normal order of things, and that has a benificial affect in making the person more resistant to malaria.

Well it took a person to introduce it into the system after much investigation, and the person is intelligent, so intelligence is still in the equation.

I am aware that scientist can manipulate matter.

vishva

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Try again.

Originally posted by vishvahetu
I am not a microbioligist, but the intelligence never gets it wrong, and if there is an "error" then the aberation is caused by some foreign influence. eg. pesticides or something else unseen.

vishva

'I'm not a microbiologist, but this is how it happens'

Remember that word humility?

So what causes Down Syndrome in your opinion?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
'I'm not a microbiologist, but this is how it happens'

Remember that word humility?

So what causes Down Syndrome in your opinion?

Kama

Originally posted by vishvahetu
Kama

Kama is translated from Sanskrit as pleasure, sensual gratification, sexual fulfillment, pleasure of the senses, desire, eros, or the aesthetic enjoyment of life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kama

You sure?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Kama is translated from Sanskrit as pleasure, sensual gratification, sexual fulfillment, pleasure of the senses, desire, eros, or the aesthetic enjoyment of life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kama

You sure?

I apologize, i meant....Karma.

vishva