righteous thief?

Originally posted by josephw
No.

Are you ignorant?

When the scripture speaks of "calling on the name of the Lord" one must read and understand that in the context of the whole.

When one calls on the Lord it is because they have believed the gospel which teaches us that God has sent His Son to pay our sin's debt on the cross.

Believe that Jesus died for you and call on His name and you will be saved.

That's all one can do to be saved.

I was being sarcastict with my answer so need for the "insults". But more is needed to gain salvation. Would you happen to know what that is?

Originally posted by galveston75
I was being sarcastict with my answer so need for the "insults". But more is needed to gain salvation. Would you happen to know what that is?

It wasn't an insult. Being ignorant doesn't imply stupidity.

Faith is all that is required for salvation. If you don't know what that means or if you believe there is something more one must do for salvation, then you are ignorant about what the scripture teaches.

No need to feel insulted. It is a common mistake that most people make. They seem to think they can "do" something in order to make themselves right with God for salvation.

Originally posted by josephw
It wasn't an insult. Being ignorant doesn't imply stupidity.

Faith is all that is required for salvation. If you don't know what that means or if you believe there is something more one must do for salvation, then you are ignorant about what the scripture teaches.

No need to feel insulted. It is a common mistake that most people make. [b]They seem to think they can "do" something in order to make themselves right with God for salvation.[/b]

Well I don't feel I'm ignorant with the scriptures as your implying so I still take it as an insult. But whatever.
Matt 24:13 says "no is saved until they've endured until the end". Has your ending already happened?
Phil 2:12 says "you have to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling". Have you already worked out your salvation?
Heb 10: 26,27 says "if you deliberatley sin after recieveing knowledge there is no longer any sacrifices left for you". Do you still sin?
Eph 2:8,9 mentions boasting about being saved. Do you think your saved?
James 2: 14, 26 mentions you have to have works to be saved. What are the works you need to be doing according to Jesus? Do you do them or even know what they are?
Believing in Jesus and ackowleding who he is, is only the first step in having the opportunity to be saved when the time comes for ones who deserve the gift of salvation. That time has not come yet.
Can you prove it has?

Originally posted by galveston75
Well I don't feel I'm ignorant with the scriptures as your implying so I still take it as an insult. But whatever.
Matt 24:13 says "no is saved until they've endured until the end". Has your ending already happened?
Phil 2:12 says "you have to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling". Have you already worked out your salvation?
Heb 10: ...[text shortened]... who deserve the gift of salvation. That time has not come yet.
Can you prove it has?

So you're offended because I suggested that you are ignorant concerning the scriptures in relation to what it teaches about salvation?

There's no need to "feel" that way. I'm not appealing to your emotions, but to your intellect.

The verses you sited are a misapplication due to a misinterpretation. But I'm not going to get into all that. Instead, I will attempt to appeal to reason.

We're talking about salvation here as it has to do with one's eternal destiny. Meaning, is one lost forever or saved forever.

Answer this question please. Why did Jesus have to die?

Originally posted by josephw
So you're offended because I suggested that you are ignorant concerning the scriptures in relation to what it teaches about salvation?

There's no need to "feel" that way. I'm not appealing to your emotions, but to your intellect.

The verses you sited are a misapplication due to a misinterpretation. But I'm not going to get into all that. Instead, I wil ...[text shortened]... st forever or saved forever.

Answer this question please. Why did Jesus have to die?

Your misapplying the scriptures. But that's another point as you say. Jesus died a propitiary sacrifice for us. Can you tell me what that means?
But to answer your question Jesus gained back for us what Adam lost for us. Rom 5th chapter.

Originally posted by whodey
Well lets try further "conjecture", shall we? In a myriad of examples in the gospels, Jesus heals and then turns to them and says, "Your faith has saved you". and went around telling them that their sins had been forgiven them. Of course, people like TOo would have thought this to be blasphamous, as did the Jews during Christs day, because only God can forgive mankind their sins.

Yes, He heals the afflictions of some and forgives some sins of some others and says, "Your faith has saved you". There's no reason to read a granting of "eternal life" into that. He explicitly states the criteria for "eternal life", "kingdom of God", etc., elsewhere. All we know is that they have been "saved" from some afflictions and some sins.

Originally posted by galveston75
Your misapplying the scriptures. But that's another point as you say. Jesus died a propitiary sacrifice for us. Can you tell me what that means?
But to answer your question Jesus gained back for us what Adam lost for us. Rom 5th chapter.

"But to answer your question Jesus gained back for us what Adam lost for us." Rom 5th chapter.

verse 19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Exactly my point. By the obedience of Jesus we are made righteous.

It is by faith in what Jesus did on the cross for us that we gain salvation.

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"But to answer your question Jesus gained back for us what Adam lost for us." Rom 5th chapter.

verse 19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Exactly my point. By the obedience of Jesus we are made righteous.

It is by faith in what Jesus did on the cross for us that we gain salvation.[/b]

So are you saved? If so how could that happen?

Originally posted by galveston75
So are you saved? If so how could that happen?

Yes I'm saved. It happened the moment I trusted Christ 28 years ago.

If anyone or anything tries to tell me differently they would be lying.

How about you?

Originally posted by josephw
Yes I'm saved. It happened the moment I trusted Christ 28 years ago.

If anyone or anything tries to tell me differently they would be lying.

How about you?

Nope... So how do you answer these scriptures that you ignored earlier?

Matt 24:13 says "no is saved until they've endured until the end". Has your ending already happened?
Phil 2:12 says "you have to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling". Have you already worked out your salvation?
Heb 10: 26,27 says "if you deliberatley sin after recieveing knowledge there is no longer any sacrifices left for you". Do you still sin?
Eph 2:8,9 mentions boasting about being saved. Do you think your saved?
James 2: 14, 26 mentions you have to have works to be saved. What are the works you need to be doing according to Jesus? Do you do them or even know what they are?

Originally posted by galveston75
Nope... So how do you answer these scriptures that you ignored earlier?

Matt 24:13 says "no is saved until they've endured until the end". Has your ending already happened?
Phil 2:12 says "you have to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling". Have you already worked out your salvation?
Heb 10: 26,27 says "if you deliberatley sin after ...[text shortened]... works you need to be doing according to Jesus? Do you do them or even know what they are?

You're not saved?

Originally posted by josephw
You're not saved?

This discussion is over if you can't answer my questions to you that I've presented to you 2 times now. The other question I asked is if you know what a pripitaitory sacrifice means regarding Jesus. You didn't answer that either. Why not? If you are saved then you should know what all these answers are. Are is ignorance an issue here?

Originally posted by galveston75
This discussion is over if you can't answer my questions to you that I've presented to you 2 times now. The other question I asked is if you know what a pripitaitory sacrifice means regarding Jesus. You didn't answer that either. Why not? If you are saved then you should know what all these answers are. Are is ignorance an issue here?

Ok galveston. I'll address your first question.

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Consider the context. Matthew 24:3-13

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

This discourse has as it's subject the end of the age just prior to Jesus' second coming. Are we at that time in history? Did those who lived prior to that time have to endure to the end? The end of what, their lives?

Jesus, in this passage, is referring to the time of the end of the age just prior to His second coming. The statement, " but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved", isn't about the salvation of their soul, but about not succumbing to the pressure of false prophets and the like. (It is not a salvation passage)

Passages like this one are not simplistic, but they are simple and easy to understand when seen in their context.

There is a good deal more to understand and learn from this passage than there is time and space. I kept it as simple as I could, but there is much much more to it than meets the eye.

Originally posted by josephw
Ok galveston. I'll address your first question.

Matthew 24:13 [b]But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Consider the context. Matthew 24:3-13

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the ...[text shortened]... ce. I kept it as simple as I could, but there is much much more to it than meets the eye.

So as your saying the end has not come yet according to those signs. So how are you saved NOW as the fulfillment of that scripture is not complete?

Originally posted by galveston75
This discussion is over if you can't answer my questions to you that I've presented to you 2 times now. The other question I asked is if you know what a pripitaitory sacrifice means regarding Jesus. You didn't answer that either. Why not? If you are saved then you should know what all these answers are. Are is ignorance an issue here?

Speaking of not answering questions, I believe you ignored 2 questions on the "God manifesting himself" thread. One from me and one from Twitehead. Or are you just going with RC's answer? (to Twitheads question. No answer to mine)