Originally posted by robbie carrobieWouldn't freedom to worship and proselytize openly and undisturbed - asserted, secured, and defended in a more proactive and robust fashion as part of wider struggle for human rights alongside other groups which are discriminated against - enable the Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia to spread their messages and teachings to more people than 'going underground' would?
We are non political in the sense that we have no part in the political process. If the Russian Supreme court rules against us we will simply take the hit and go underground like we did when we were previously banned.
30 Mar 17
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe JWs might be a lot of things but surely do not seem "extreme" in most ways.
Its the word that the newspaper cited used. This publication has nothing to do with Jehovah's Witnesses. We are being tried for extremism.
Do they think there is something going on that you (JWs) have not told them ?
what are you guys hiding? 🙂
Originally posted by karoly aczelI consider the Jehovah's Witness teachings to be extreme, yes. Are they extreme compared to ISIS? No of course not. It's all relative.
The JWs might be a lot of things but surely do not seem "extreme" in most ways.
Do they think there is something going on that you (JWs) have not told them ? what are you guys hiding?
But they are "extreme" when one considers a handful of their beliefs in light of general mainstream Christian teaching and the outputs/effect of those teachings, and some of their behaviours; for examples of extreme in that context:
- the sole holders of god's revealed truth on earth
- church membership is required for spiritual salvation
- shunning and its effects of individual's and families
- not permitting blood transfusions > in extreme circumstances, effectively child sacrifice
- not being permitted to vote in political elections
- not being permitted to join the armed forces
- not permitting children their birthdays or Christmas
- their stance when defending abuse allegations
- polytheism
- metrication and management of proselyting by members
- etc
Now, let me be clear before I'm accused of defending Putin...I don't support the alleged way this group are being treated in Russia. However if they have become vocal and considered militant about their anti-war stance, blood, door preaching or a combo of these other "extreme" beliefs, in a country such as Russia which has a strong Orthodox leaning and Putin at the helm...then they are likely to experience some blow-back.
Originally posted by karoly aczelHiding what for example? Bible tracts with pandas on the front?
The JWs might be a lot of things but surely do not seem "extreme" in most ways.
Do they think there is something going on that you (JWs) have not told them ?
what are you guys hiding? 🙂
- Joined
- 29 Dec 08
- Moves
- 6788
30 Mar 17
Originally posted by robbie carrobieIt's really obvious, imo. When a religion (or any social institution) is seen by the state as a competitor for the hearts and minds of the state's subjects, the state will act as needed to reduce the influence of the religion.
Hiding what for example? Bible tracts with pandas on the front?
It does not matter that the religion denies the charge (extremism, in this case) and claims to be apolitical.
30 Mar 17
Originally posted by JS357I have no doubt that the Russian Orthodox Church and their rich and powerful patrons are behind this latest attempt to have the brothers banned and their assets liquidated and their activities made illegal.. We have had this argument before about what constitutes a political action and its not really that relevant here. We are facing a kind of existential threat. No legal status and no rights to practice our religion.
It's really obvious, imo. When a religion (or any social institution) is seen by the state as a competitor for the hearts and minds of the state's subjects, the state will act as needed to reduce the influence of the religion.
It does not matter that the religion denies the charge (extremism, in this case) and claims to be apolitical.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSo what kind of debate or discussion on this poltical topic (i.e. the lack of legal rights or status) do you think would be relevant here?
We have had this argument before about what constitutes a political action and its not really that relevant here. We are facing a kind of existential threat. No legal status and no rights to practice our religion.
- Joined
- 29 Dec 08
- Moves
- 6788
30 Mar 17
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThat comes with the mission, doesn't it?
I have no doubt that the Russian Orthodox Church and their rich and powerful patrons are behind this latest attempt to have the brothers banned and their assets liquidated and their activities made illegal.. We have had this argument before about what constitutes a political action and its not really that relevant here. We are facing a kind of existential threat. No legal status and no rights to practice our religion.
30 Mar 17
2 edits
Originally posted by JS357Yes we have fought and won around eighteen cases in The Supreme Court of the United States of America, many of which has set legal precedents. Paul whenever he could sought to 'legally establish the good news'.
That comes with the mission, doesn't it?
It is only right for me to think this regarding all of you, since I have you in my heart, you who are sharers with me in the undeserved kindness both in my prison bonds and in the defending and legally establishing of the good news. - Philippians 1:7 - NWT
30 Mar 17
3 edits
Originally posted by divegeesterI am also not in the mood for loaded questions either, especially ones containing vile insinuations and the usual slime. I am going to put you on ignore, please don't take it personally, I simply have no time for people that turn every thread into a slime fest.
You mean you're not in the mood to discuss anything you feel will make you look as though you've been dishonest in your thread title?
30 Mar 17
Originally posted by robbie carrobiewhat about my prayer idea on page one?
I am also not in the mood for loaded questions either, especially ones containing vile insinuations and the usual slime. I am going to put you on ignore, please don't take it personally, I simply have no time for people that turn every thread into a slime fest.
30 Mar 17
Originally posted by robbie carrobieDo you support the struggles of other groups in Russia that face the diminishing or abrogation of their legal status and rights that elsewhere are recognized by the European Court of Human Rights?
We are facing a kind of existential threat. No legal status and no rights to practice our religion.