Spirituality
21 Dec 09
22 Dec 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobiei reject the idea that person is instantly in union with Christ forever, regardless of what may or may not occur...
i reject the idea that person is instantly in union with Christ forever, regardless of what may or may not occur, its a preposterous and unfounded statement and reminiscent of the nonsense that evangelic christians (even though they dont do much evangelising, ironic isnt it) have come to perpetuate. 'Take him into your heart and you will be saved'! ...[text shortened]... that one is instantly saved and does not need to do anything, is a mockery and an unreality!
Given your predilection for rejecting basics of the Christian faith, it is not surprising to see you reject such a fundamental aspect of Christianity. What may or may not occur is not the issue in salvation. Belief--- acceptance of His work in place of my work--- is the only issue in salvation. Anything more is arrogance; anything less is ineffective.
its a preposterous and unfounded statement and reminiscent of the nonsense that evangelic christians (even though they dont do much evangelising, ironic isnt it) have come to perpetuate.
It is indeed preposterous, in the sense of contrary to nature, reason or common sense. For the worldly man, it is utter foolishness.
Hardly unfounded, it is found throughout the Bible, in many passages and the actual theme of many writings. You should check it out sometime.
And, it should be noted, it is the job of Christians to perpetuate this concept. Clearly, concisely, correctly.
'Take him into your heart and you will be saved'! Nonsense!
Well, before that, you were on the right track (by being on the wrong track, mind you). No where in the Bible is there even an inkling of the Lord Jesus Christ--- or any of His apostles, for that matter--- where the teaching is anywhere near such a heretical concept. He never told us to take Him into our hearts. Ever. Such thinking is blasphemy.
1.Paul clearly states, that one can indeed lose ones faith... to state that one is instantly saved and does not need to do anything, is a mockery and an unreality!
Paul clearly states that one can lose their standing, not their salvation. You need to be able to tell the difference between the two. As your woeful lack of discernment regarding scriptural matters attests, you shouldn't be wielding a sword you obviously need help in lifting.
Get the basics down first and then add to them.
22 Dec 09
Originally posted by FreakyKBHperhaps if you actually addressed the scriptures and the principles, rather than uttering the usual emotionally charged caustic diatribe, you might have a case!, as it stands, you have as yet, not produced one shred of scriptural evidence to refute the claims, but, as predicted, whimper away and attack the personality rather than the claims. how very banal! do you not like having your beliefs questioned? why is that? oh now i see the emotionalism, that very ingredient which all those whose faith is not founded have reason have recourse to! when you have anything of substance to relate, let me know, as it stands, your assertion is even more preposterous, given the lack of evidence, than it was previously. let it be noted!
[b]i reject the idea that person is instantly in union with Christ forever, regardless of what may or may not occur...
Given your predilection for rejecting basics of the Christian faith, it is not surprising to see you reject such a fundamental aspect of Christianity. What may or may not occur is not the issue in salvation. Belief--- acceptance of ...[text shortened]... sword you obviously need help in lifting.
Get the basics down first and then add to them.[/b]
22 Dec 09
Originally posted by FreakyKBH===================================
[b]i reject the idea that person is instantly in union with Christ forever, regardless of what may or may not occur...
Given your predilection for rejecting basics of the Christian faith, it is not surprising to see you reject such a fundamental aspect of Christianity. What may or may not occur is not the issue in salvation. Belief--- acceptance of ...[text shortened]... sword you obviously need help in lifting.
Get the basics down first and then add to them.[/b]
No where in the Bible is there even an inkling of the Lord Jesus Christ--- or any of His apostles, for that matter--- where the teaching is anywhere near such a heretical concept. He never told us to take Him into our hearts. Ever. Such thinking is blasphemy.
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Freaky, what would you say about this verse?
"That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith, ..." (Eph. 3:17)
22 Dec 09
Originally posted by jaywillif that is an indirect reference to the post i gave, why dont you ask me you coward, or you may even want to comment on any of the verses that i cited or shall you do the usual evangelical tap dance of ignoring completely the objection and simply try to establish your own line of reasoning, regardless, evangelists that dont evangelise, haha, it is to laugh!
[b]===================================
No where in the Bible is there even an inkling of the Lord Jesus Christ--- or any of His apostles, for that matter--- where the teaching is anywhere near such a heretical concept. He never told us to take Him into our hearts. Ever. Such thinking is blasphemy.
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...[text shortened]... rse?
"That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith, ..." (Eph. 3:17)[/b]
22 Dec 09
3 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe exchange looked to me like Freaky's response to something you wrote. I am not interested in what you have to say about it. I am interested in Freaky's response.
if that is an indirect reference to the post i gave, why dont you ask me you coward, or you may even want to comment on any of the verses that i cited or shall you do the usual evangelical tap dance of ignoring completely the objection and simply try to establish your own line of reasoning, regardless, evangelists that dont evangelise, haha, it is to laugh!
And if you did wrote that bit about Christ is nowhere being taught by Himself or His apostles as coming into the heart, if it was you who wrote it, I don't care whatever else you have to say on it.
Now please get out of the way and let Freaky respond if he wishes.
22 Dec 09
Freaky, is this your sentence ?
===================================
No where in the Bible is there even an inkling of the Lord Jesus Christ--- or any of His apostles, for that matter--- where the teaching is anywhere near such a heretical concept. He never told us to take Him into our hearts. Ever. Such thinking is blasphemy.
=======================================
If so what would you say about this verse?
"That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith, ..." (Eph. 3:17)
22 Dec 09
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillyou are uninterested, then i thank God and Christ i dont have to read your inane babbling! Go get a life and get over it, every one else can!
The exchange looked to me like Freaky's response to something you wrote. I am not interested in what you have to say about it. I am interested in Freaky's response.
And if you did wrote that bit about Christ is nowhere being taught by Himself or His apostles as coming into the heart, if it [b]was you who wrote it, I don't care whatever else you have to say on it.
Now please get out of the way and let Freaky respond if he wishes.[/b]
22 Dec 09
Originally posted by jaywillThere I go again: claiming that the Christian's charge is to be as concise and accurate as possible, and then sounding as obtuse as a Watchtower pamphlet.
[b]===================================
No where in the Bible is there even an inkling of the Lord Jesus Christ--- or any of His apostles, for that matter--- where the teaching is anywhere near such a heretical concept. He never told us to take Him into our hearts. Ever. Such thinking is blasphemy.
=======================================
...[text shortened]... rse?
"That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith, ..." (Eph. 3:17)[/b]
When I said He never told 'us' to take Him into our hearts, the 'us' in mind was any member of the group collectively known as unbelievers. My response was to the quote relative to an unbeliever inviting Christ into his heart.
Christ cannot dwell in a sewer. The heart must be cleaned in order for Christ to dwell. Here in Ephesians and elsewhere in the NT wherein the hearer is entreated to bring Christ into his heart, it is always an invitation for the believer, never for the unbeliever.
22 Dec 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieperhaps if you actually addressed the scriptures and the principles, rather than uttering the usual emotionally charged caustic diatribe, you might have a case!
perhaps if you actually addressed the scriptures and the principles, rather than uttering the usual emotionally charged caustic diatribe, you might have a case!, as it stands, you have as yet, not produced one shred of scriptural evidence to refute the claims, but, as predicted, whimper away and attack the personality rather than the claims. how ver ...[text shortened]... is even more preposterous, given the lack of evidence, than it was previously. let it be noted!
Actually, I did address the passages you quoted and gave the underlying principles in view. That they were contrary to your rendition obviously vexes you, but certainly, of the ingredients used in my response, emotion was either last on the list or non-existent.
Conversely, we have your entry, replete with all manner of exclamation points. Read this about exclamation points, from Wiki...
"An exclamation mark or exclamation point (!), colloquially often bang, is a punctuation mark usually used after an interjection or exclamation to indicate strong feelings or high volume, and often marks the end of a sentence."
"Caustic?"
Sure. Intended as so.
If it bites, there must be something to it.
I do my best not to simply bark.
You're welcome.
"Diatribe?"
You can say that again.
What say you log off thesaurus.com, quit being so diversionary and talk at the adult table, hmm?
but, as predicted, whimper away and attack the personality rather than the claims.
You made a prediction, eh? If you did, I missed it. And if you did, it was about as accurate as, say, these oldie-but-goody nuggets from a certain Chucky T. Russell in his must-read serials, Studies in the Scriptures:
"And, with the end of A.D. 1914, what God calls Babylon , and what men call Christendom, will have passed away, as is already shown from prophecy." Studies In The Scriptures, Vol. III, (1897)
"...we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished by the end of A.D. 1914." (1889)
"In the coming 26 years, all present governments will be overthrown and dissolved." Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. II, (1889)
do you not like having your beliefs questioned?
I have no issue with any legitimate question, of any one who comes seeking, asking, knocking. My beliefs are an open book, ready for examination.
Can you say the same?
let it be noted!
Indubitably.
22 Dec 09
1 edit
Originally posted by FreakyKBHStill not one scriptural reference, no not one utterance either from Paul, or of the Christ! i think Old mother Hubbard has got more chance of finding one in that post than i do. Let me know when a scripture springs to mind, anything really, you know, the usual drivel you non evangelising evangelical born again 'Christians', (i use the term loosely) can spout,
[b]perhaps if you actually addressed the scriptures and the principles, rather than uttering the usual emotionally charged caustic diatribe, you might have a case!
Actually, I did address the passages you quoted and gave the underlying principles in view. That they were contrary to your rendition obviously vexes you, but certainly, of the ingredients for examination.
Can you say the same?
let it be noted!
Indubitably.[/b]
(Acts 16:30-31) . . .And he brought them outside and said: “Sirs, what must I do to get saved?” They said: “Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will get saved, you and your household.”
(Romans 10:9-10) . . .For if you publicly declare that ‘word in your own mouth,’ that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation.
anything really will do, rather than vague references to exclamation marks and non existent principles and the erroneous assertions of Brother Russell (peace be upon him)
22 Dec 09
1 edit
ol mother Hubbard,
went to the evalgelical Christians cupboard,
to fetch her poor doggy a scripture,
when she got there,
the cupboard was bare
and so the poor doggy got none
three spiritually blind evangelical Christians
see how the pontificate
see how they pontificate
they tried to convert the farmers wife
who said i never heard such a thing in my life
as three trinitarian Gods within the one Godhead
and spanked them soundly and sent them to bed
three spiritually blind evangelical Christians
see how the pontificate
see how they pontificate
dee dee dee de!
22 Dec 09
1 edit
Originally posted by SwissGambitThis is a great question imo and one that I've pondered over loads of times. I'd like to say i felt the answer is yes but there is little evidence Biblically speaking so I guess it's tough on the old pointy tails, but that's what you get for choosing to be a demon. However there is I believe a doctrine that supports the "reconciliation of all things" by God; I don't subscribe myself but others may have a view...
What if one of them wanted to repent and turn from his/her wicked ways? Any chance for him?
22 Dec 09
1 edit
Originally posted by FreakyKBH===================================
There I go again: claiming that the Christian's charge is to be as concise and accurate as possible, and then sounding as obtuse as a Watchtower pamphlet.
When I said He never told 'us' to take Him into our hearts, the 'us' in mind was any member of the group collectively known as unbelievers. My response was to the quote relative to an unbeliever invi ...[text shortened]... rist into his heart, it is always an invitation for the believer, never for the unbeliever.
There I go again: claiming that the Christian's charge is to be as concise and accurate as possible, and then sounding as obtuse as a Watchtower pamphlet.
When I said He never told 'us' to take Him into our hearts, the 'us' in mind was any member of the group collectively known as unbelievers. My response was to the quote relative to an unbeliever inviting Christ into his heart.
Christ cannot dwell in a sewer. The heart must be cleaned in order for Christ to dwell. Here in Ephesians and elsewhere in the NT wherein the hearer is entreated to bring Christ into his heart, it is always an invitation for the believer, never for the unbeliever.
===========================================
A humble and interesting response. And maybe I didn't read enough of the initial conversation.
But the phrase "Let Jesus into your heart" to me, is PERFECTLY acceptable to believer OR unbeliever.
What is the heart in biblcal terms? The heart is the mind, emotion, will, and conscience.
For the unbeliever, I think the key is the conscience. Letting Jesus into the heart can mean let the conscience come under His conviction and obey Him to be forgiven of sins which offend the conscience.
The phrase is OK with me as pertaining to an unbeliever because it is one of the ways such a profound concept can be communicated in human words. Jesus is alive and available as a life giving Spirit - "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor .15:45).
And the life giving Spirit, which is Jesus in His pneumatic form has to enter into the human vessel to make an abode with His seeker:
"Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him." (John 14:23)
Jesus in the Holy Spirit with His Father can be initiated by inviting Jesus into your heart. "Lord Jesus, I receive you into my heart. Come into my heart Lord Jesus. Come into my heart Father."
However our limited language would express this invitation, God understands and is willing to come into our vessel cleansing us from every sin.
I would never discourage any seeker to pray an ask the Lord Jesus into their heart. And as Paul said He can make His home in our hearts through faith.
23 Dec 09
Originally posted by jaywillHades is part of Christian theology? Wow.
They probably had their chance long long ago. Perhaps before the creation of man they had their chance to repent.
The legion of demons besought the Son of God to cast them into a herd of pigs. And they said:
[b]"And behold, they [the demons] cried out, saying, What do we have to do with You, Son of God? Have You come here before the time to torment ...[text shortened]... the Son of God. He's the One with authority over every evil spirit.
How many alternate planes are there now? Our universe, the Seven Heavens, Nine Hells, Limbo, Purgatory, and now Hades.