12 Sep 08
Originally posted by brendan94Anyone who believes war is "a task that is from God" does not follow / believe in the God of Jesus.
United States Vice Presidential candidate Sarah Palin said that the war in Iraq is an example of God`s Work. What does everyone think of this?
12 Sep 08
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneDid not the God of Jesus task his people with waging war on Jericho?
Anyone who believes war is "a task that is from God" does not follow / believe in the God of Jesus.
Did not the God of Jesus task his people with waging war on Sodom?
Did not the God of Jesus task his people with waging war on Midian?
Did not the God of Jesus task his people with waging war on Canaan?
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12 Sep 08
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesThe God of Jesus?
Did not the God of Jesus task his people with waging war on Jericho?
Did not the God of Jesus task his people with waging war on Sodom?
Did not the God of Jesus task his people with waging war on Midian?
Did not the God of Jesus task his people with waging war on Canaan?
12 Sep 08
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneI entirely agree. Jesus was a complete pacifist. There can be no doubt about this.
Anyone who believes war is "a task that is from God" does not follow / believe in the God of Jesus.
People who use the name of Jesus for war just don't get it. It's a distortion of his message because they take one aspect of Christ (the desire for justice) but ignore the other aspect of pacifism and non-violence. It's always very dangerous to "pick and mix" with Jesus and try to fit him to our own world views.
Palin may feel that her cause is just and she is standing up for goodness but as long as she tries to fit Jesus into her model rather than fit herself into his model then it will always be a distortion.
12 Sep 08
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesThat was the God of the Jews. Jesus came to put things straight on God. The Jews knew something of God but they didn't have the full picture.
Did not the God of Jesus task his people with waging war on Jericho?
Did not the God of Jesus task his people with waging war on Sodom?
Did not the God of Jesus task his people with waging war on Midian?
Did not the God of Jesus task his people with waging war on Canaan?
12 Sep 08
1 edit
Originally posted by knightmeisterDo you mean that there was another God that the Jews worshiped, or are you saying that the Jews were wrong? Your post implies the existence of another God.
That was the God of the Jews. Jesus came to put things straight on God. The Jews knew something of God but they didn't have the full picture.
If you are saying that the Jews had it wrong, how much else from the old Testament should be treated in the same light?
When the Jews made those claims, were they making them up for selfish reasons or do you think they were genuinely mistaken?
And why did God not put the Jews straight much earlier (and avoid the millions of deaths in those wars). He clearly talked to the Jews quite a lot in those days, surely he could have slipped in a simple 'I don't like war' somewhere along the line?
12 Sep 08
Originally posted by knightmeisterA pacifist is someone who is against violence for any reason whatsoever. But consider that Jesus fashioned a whip and drove out the money changers with it. A strict pacifist would never have attempted such a thing. Also consider what the book of Revelation has to say about the second coming of Christ, "Out of His mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. He will rule them with an iron scepter. He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty" (Rev. 19:15).
I entirely agree. Jesus was a complete pacifist. There can be no doubt about this.
People who use the name of Jesus for war just don't get it. It's a distortion of his message because they take one aspect of Christ (the desire for justice) but ignore the other aspect of pacifism and non-violence. It's always very dangerous to "pick and mix" with Jes ...[text shortened]... into her model rather than fit herself into his model then it will always be a distortion.
12 Sep 08
1 edit
Originally posted by knightmeisterThe God of the Jews, Jehovah ("I AM THAT I AM" ), is the "Father" which Jesus mentions throughout his earthly ministry. Referenced as "LORD" in the OT, Jehovah used nations to bring judgment upon other nations all the time.
That was the God of the Jews. Jesus came to put things straight on God. The Jews knew something of God but they didn't have the full picture.
God abounds with mercy and loving-kindness, but we mustn't forget that he is also holy and just. He's the Lion and the Lamb.
Consider that Jesus never takes issue with Jehovah's actions in the OT. Jesus recognized Jehovah as sovereign; indeed, even wars have been sanctioned by the LORD. In this world there will always be evil that we must stand up to and fight if need be, when to stand idly by is unacceptable. Nazi Germany, for example, was a threat which it would have been a sin to ignore. There were some German Christians who plotted to assassinate Adolf Hitler (e.g., pastor Dietrich Bonhoeffer). Anything less would have been an unconscionable act of cowardice. Most German churches during the Nazi era, for instance, continued with their sleepy weekly services well aware of the death camps and yet pretended not to notice.
God exercised judgment in the OT and He will exercise judgment in the future. This is the full picture. Invariably God exercising His judgment involves death and destruction. There is a reason why we are so thankful for His mercy, because God's judgment is something rightly to be feared. Wisdom is the fear of the LORD.
12 Sep 08
Originally posted by epiphinehasJesus never killed anyone or as far as I know even injure someone. When it came to the final reckoning he chose to be killed in the name of love and goodness rather than kill. The fact that he once picked up a whip and that there's a dream about him in Revelations using a "sword" doesn't change anything. He was still a total pacifist. No war in his name can ever be justified.
A pacifist is someone who is against violence for any reason whatsoever. But consider that Jesus fashioned a whip and drove out the money changers with it. A strict pacifist would never have attempted such a thing. Also consider what the book of Revelation has to say about the second coming of Christ, "Out of His mouth comes a sharp sword with which t ...[text shortened]... iron scepter. He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty" (Rev. 19:15).
12 Sep 08
Originally posted by epiphinehasThe Jews realised God was holy but there understanding of him was barely better than Islam's sometimes. The God of the Jews is a fiercely nationalist God which sometimes makes it hard to see the real God behind. If the God of the OT was so spot on then why send Jesus to correct things?
The God of the Jews, Jehovah ("I AM THAT I AM" ), is the "Father" which Jesus mentions throughout his earthly ministry. Referenced as "LORD" in the OT, Jehovah used nations to bring judgment upon other nations all the time.
God abounds with mercy and loving-kindness, but we mustn't forget that he is also holy and just. He's the Lion [i]and[/i ...[text shortened]... use God's judgment is something rightly to be feared. Wisdom is the fear of the LORD.
12 Sep 08
Originally posted by knightmeisterI see your point. A war in the name of Jesus can't be justified.
Jesus never killed anyone or as far as I know even injure someone. When it came to the final reckoning he chose to be killed in the name of love and goodness rather than kill. The fact that he once picked up a whip and that there's a dream about him in Revelations using a "sword" doesn't change anything. He was still a total pacifist. No war in his name can ever be justified.
12 Sep 08
Originally posted by knightmeisterHow did Jesus correct things?
The Jews realised God was holy but there understanding of him was barely better than Islam's sometimes. The God of the Jews is a fiercely nationalist God which sometimes makes it hard to see the real God behind. If the God of the OT was so spot on then why send Jesus to correct things?