Saved Eternally ??

Originally posted by Rajk999

For your own well-being and salvation I suggest you focus on the teachings of Jesus and not on what churches preach.

The normal church is the pillar and base of the truth ( 1 Tim. 3:15) .

If the local church is normal it has the responsibility to be "the pillar and base of the truth".

"But if I delay, I write that you may know how one ought to conduct himself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and base of the truth."

Originally posted by sonship

For your own well-being and salvation I suggest you focus on the teachings of Jesus and not on what churches preach.

The normal church is the pillar and base of the truth [b]( 1 Tim. 3:15) .

If the local church is normal it has the responsibility to be "the pillar and base of the truth".

"But if I delay, ...[text shortened]... of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and base of the truth."

[/b]

And again if you read a few more verses the story becomes clearer:

But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. .... Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron ..... But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness. (1 Timothy 3:15-4:7 KJV)

The church is the body of Christ.
Members should know how to conduct themselves as part of the body of Christ.
But in the last days people will depart from the faith.
These people are to be avoided.
Instead Paul warns that focus must be on godliness [ie righteousness and keeping away from sin]

Christianity has fulfilled this prophesy and is now a cesspool of evil, greed, crookedness and false teachings. The Bible warns of this evil and this departing from the truth. The Christian church is not [or no longer] the body of Christ. The body of Christ now is the group of people all over the world that live godly, righteous lives... these are Christ's sheep.

Originally posted by Rajk999
And again if you read a few more verses the story becomes clearer:

[i]But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. .... Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed t ...[text shortened]... group of people all over the world that live godly, righteous lives... these are Christ's sheep.

You are really hung up on bad mouthing Christians, and to my amazement you are also
the one who says no one knows who belongs to God too. No one I know has denied that
those that live a life of sin will pay for that life by dying in their sins. You assume that just
because someone claims the name Christian that makes them something different than
any other person walking around the planet. I guess in your eyes every sinner who lives
a life of sin yet claims to be a Christian just means, everyone else that who makes that
claims must also do all the evil things those sinners do.

You don't think it is possible that evil people take upon themselves any name they can
find to try and hide what they really are? For them claiming to be a Christian is just a
smoke screen to hide their sinful lives.

None of that means that those the have turned their lives over to Jesus, and are born
again, filled with God's Spirit, doing the works God has for them are also living sinful lives.

I know Satan accuses those who belong to Jesus, but Jesus is there for us.
Whose work are you doing, building up the church, or accusing it?

Our lives are only righteous in Christ, if you think otherwise that you are good enough you
are...well politely, you would have to have a very high opinion of yourself.

Originally posted by Rajk999
And again if you read a few more verses the story becomes clearer:

[i]But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. .... Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed t ...[text shortened]... group of people all over the world that live godly, righteous lives... these are Christ's sheep.

So you have now decided to ignore me, is that your tactic, really?!

Originally posted by KellyJay
None of that means that those the have turned their lives over to Jesus, and are born again, filled with God's Spirit, doing the works God has for them are also living sinful lives.

Are the "sins" that you're going to commit ~ tomorrow, next week, next year ~ according to your personal theology, already forgiven in advance?

Originally posted by Rajk999
[b]1. Pastor Strips Women:
http://news24zim.com/2015/09/05/video-pastor-strips-women-naked-in-church-so-that-god-can-see-them-clearly/

2. Pastor Sells ‘Holy Pens’ That Make Students Pass Exams Without Studying,
http://news24zim.com/2015/10/21/pastor-sells-holy-pens-that-make-students-pass-exams-without-studying-claims-the-more-you-pay-the- ...[text shortened]... play God? Let God judge people and decide who gets eternal life and who gets eternal damnation.[/b]

Rajk999, under your Tag you say "Enjoying".

What are you "Enjoying" ? Is this OP to this thread you have created an example of your enjoyment ?

Without looking into your links I am wondering where is the enjoyment. Sounds good that you're enjoying something, or hopefully Someone. But this stuff ?

Did you ever read -

" For the things which are done by them in secret it is shameful even to speak of." (Eph. 4:12)

Alright, I know you want me not to skip any of the passage, so I'll include it all.

"And do not participate in the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather even reprove [or expose] them .

For the things which are done by them in secret it is shameful to speak of.

But all things which are reproved are made manifest by the light; for everything that makes manifest is light.

Therefore He says, Awake sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you." (vs. 11-14)

I hardly know where to stop.
Anyway you should not think anyone is getting away with anything. And you should not feel that security of eternal life means that our God is unrighteous or not too smart.

I can plainly see by reading the Bible that God is not mocked.

Originally posted by Rajk999

The church is the body of Christ.

Very good. That means first of all that the members have the life of Christ. That is what makes them His Body. His LIFE is in them.

Members should know how to conduct themselves as part of the body of Christ.

Absolutely true. That is the spirit of the passages. And in so doing the church becomes the pillar and base of the truth.

The truth is not just "right doctrine." It is the reality of the indwelling Christ lived out.

But in the last days people will depart from the faith.
These people are to be avoided.
Instead Paul warns that focus must be on godliness [ie righteousness and keeping away from sin]

All true.
Did I imply otherwise in any way?

Christianity has fulfilled this prophesy and is now a cesspool of evil, greed, crookedness and false teachings.

But the normal church life is the pillar and base of the truth.
That is where I intend to be,

And I found such a normal church life.
www.localchurches,org

The Bible warns of this evil and this departing from the truth. The Christian church is not [or no longer] the body of Christ. The body of Christ now is the group of people all over the world that live godly, righteous lives... these are Christ's sheep.

Christiandom has lost the practicality of the body of Christ.
That does not change the eternal truth.
And the church cannot be prevailed against by the gates of Hades (Matt. 16:18).

Do you believe the words of Christ or do you think He has been defeated ?

"And I also say that you are Peter [ or a stone] , and upon this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it."

This is not quoted by me to say anything about a pope or the Catholic Church. This is quoted by me that Christ prophesied that the gates of Hades will NOT prevail against the church which He builds, which is the practical expression of the Body of Christ.
But God has a recovery of the body life.

We Christians are being called to overcome the surrounding degradation. And we can have confidence that the Body will have a manifestation on this earth.

http://www.lordsrecovery.org/

Originally posted by sonship

The church is the body of Christ.

Very good. That means first of all that the members have the life of Christ. That is what makes them His Body. His LIFE is in them.

Members should know how to conduct themselves as part of the body of Christ.

Absolutely true. That is the spirit of the passages. And in so doing ...[text shortened]... dy will have a manifestation on this earth.

[b] http://www.lordsrecovery.org/ [/b]

Your doctrine is that ALL Christians ie whoever profess their faith in Christ will get eternal life, and that cannot change.

I am saying that NOT ALL Christians will get eternal life. Some will be destroyed and will not get eternal life.

God can and will remove names from the Book of Life.

God / Christ cannot be defeated. The false doctrines and evil prevalent in Christianity does not mean the defeat of Christ. You continue to equate the body of Christ with the Christian church.

The body of Christ are His SHEEP. The Christian church is made up of BOTH sheep and goats.

Originally posted by sonship
Rajk999, under your Tag you say "Enjoying".

What are you "Enjoying" ? Is this OP to this thread you have created an example of your enjoyment ?

Without looking into your links I am wondering where is the enjoyment. Sounds good that you're enjoying something, or hopefully Someone. But this stuff ?

Did you ever read -

[quote] [b] " For the thin ...[text shortened]... unrighteous or not too smart.

I can plainly see by reading the Bible that God is not mocked.

I dont know what all this foolishness is about .. so I wont bother.

Originally posted by KellyJay
You are really hung up on bad mouthing Christians, and to my amazement you are also
the one who says no one knows who belongs to God too. No one I know has denied that
those that live a life of sin will pay for that life by dying in their sins. You assume that just
because someone claims the name Christian that makes them something different than
any ot ...[text shortened]... re good enough you
are...well politely, you would have to have a very high opinion of yourself.

You must be blind to not see the corrupt state that has overcome Christianity as prophesied by the Apostles.
Im not interested in building up any church. I am interested in building up PEOPLE.

Do you believe in the view that ALL Christians will get eternal life? This is the doctrine proposed by sonship. He claims that not even God can remove their names from the book of life. What is your opinion on that?

Originally posted by Rajk999
You must be blind to not see the corrupt state that has overcome Christianity as prophesied by the Apostles.
Im not interested in building up any church. I am interested in building up PEOPLE.

Do you believe in the view that ALL Christians will get eternal life? This is the doctrine proposed by sonship. He claims that not even God can remove their names from the book of life. What is your opinion on that?

No I just never connected corruption with the Bride of Christ as you do. I have always known
that there are people who claim to be Christians who are not. It is throughout scripture it
happen in the OT where there were false prophets, it happen in the NT too with several
warnings about them, these being a couple:

Matthew 7:15
Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves.

2 Peter 2:1-3American Standard Version (ASV)

2 But there arose false prophets also among the people, as among you also there shall be false teachers, who shall privily bring in destructive heresies, denying even the Master that bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many shall follow their lascivious doings; by reason of whom the way of the truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And in covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose sentence now from of old lingereth not, and their destruction slumbereth not.

The devil appears as an angel of light, it is what the enemy of our souls does, it is all he
does it try to hide the truth by deception. This has not changed, to suggest that the church
of God was overcome is not Biblical at all. The church I was referring to is the Bride of
Christ, and your rejection of those that come to the Lord through Jesus because you see
sinners who sin is very sad.

If you accept that Christians were followers of God, and then you turn around and say they
were overcome so that God was defeated in keeping His own! Well now that is without a
doubt a mouthful to accept! If you honestly believe God cannot complete a work He starts
in people God must be very small in your eyes!

I don't think God's church was ever defeated, I believe God can and does complete the
good works He starts in us. I know you are all about human effort, I think you have gotten
to the place where now only human effort matters, you ignore God in God's church.

Originally posted by Rajk999
You must be blind to not see the corrupt state that has overcome Christianity as prophesied by the Apostles.
Im not interested in building up any church. I am interested in building up PEOPLE.

Do you believe in the view that ALL Christians will get eternal life? This is the doctrine proposed by sonship. He claims that not even God can remove their names from the book of life. What is your opinion on that?

"Do you believe in the view that ALL Christians will get eternal life?"

I believe those that are born again, who receive God's Spirit, who do the work God has
for them to do, who believe in Jesus will if they are called Christian or not will receive
eternal life. I also believe that no one else will, that everyone else will be giving an
account to God for their sins which will be because they missed Jesus, those will be
standing before God in their own righteousness doomed, because no amount of good
works will be enough to blot out their sins before God and man.

Originally posted by KellyJay
"Do you believe in the view that ALL Christians will get eternal life?"

I believe those that are born again, who receive God's Spirit, who do the work God has
for them to do, who believe in Jesus will if they are called Christian or not will receive
eternal life. I also believe that no one else will, that everyone else will be giving an
account to Go ...[text shortened]... omed, because no amount of good
works will be enough to blot out their sins before God and man.

Ok you said this in which Im interested

I believe those that are born again, who receive God's Spirit, who do the work God has for them to do, who believe in Jesus will if they are called Christian or not will receive eternal life.

Im dont separate Christians iinto different types like you do. I think you are mistaken to make that distinction and say that those who do evil are not Christian. I dont know how you can do that. Only God knows the heart of man and who is evil and who is not.

There are about 3,000,000,000 Christians in the world and according to you not all professing to be Christian will qualify for eternal life. I notice that you do not challenge sonship when he claims that All professing to be Christian will get eternal life in the end notwithstanding any 'loss' that they suffer.

Im not interested in the other part of your post. God will decide what happens to others. In any case that is not the topic under discussion.

Originally posted by KellyJay
"Do you believe in the view that ALL Christians will get eternal life?"

I believe those that are born again, who receive God's Spirit, who do the work God has
for them to do, who believe in Jesus will if they are called Christian or not will receive
eternal life. I also believe that no one else will, that everyone else will be giving an
account to Go ...[text shortened]... omed, because no amount of good
works will be enough to blot out their sins before God and man.

I believe those that are born again, who receive God's Spirit, who do the work God has
for them to do, who believe in Jesus will if they are called Christian or not will receive
eternal life
Why do you add to salvation? Namely, "those who do the work God has called them to do?"
Anyone who is born again, already has eternal life, period.

Originally posted by KellyJay
No I just never connected corruption with the Bride of Christ as you do. I have always known
that there are people who claim to be Christians who are not. It is throughout scripture it
happen in the OT where there were false prophets, it happen in the NT too with several
warnings about them, these being a couple:

Matthew 7:15
Beware of false prophets ...[text shortened]... u have gotten
to the place where now only human effort matters, you ignore God in God's church.

I never mentioned 'bride of Christ'. I said the 'body of Christ'.

I interpret the former to be New Jerusalem and the latter to be the righteous sheep that Christ accepts into the Kingdom of God. Not all of the latter are Christians and not all Christians are sheep.

The Christian sheep are not corrupted. The Christian goats are corrupted and will be excluded from the Kingdom of God. God knows who they are. I dont and you dont either.

Gods work in not defeated. Did I aver say that? Why do you people keep twisting what I say???