say 'no' to satan

Originally posted by stellspalfie
i have no morbid interest in satan. im interested in the morality of christianity. if satan has got me with his lies then so be it ill burn in hell for being tricked by a god like being with super intelligence, the master of lies, no shame in that. we all get tricked. if americans can be fooled into voting for bush twice, then we are all fallible.


...[text shortened]... , are you saying that if our freewill was tweaked so we couldnt be bad we would then be robotic?

How did Bush get into the conversation ?
Is this a rebuttal in search of a political debate ?

why do you think the only options are to be how god created us with freewill or like robots, are you saying that if our freewill was tweaked so we couldnt be bad we would then be robotic?

It makes sense to me that the potential for something to go horribly wrong in God's creation exists.

It furthermore makes sense for me that perhaps God has some way of causing all this potential corruption to be collected into a kind of grand resevoir once and for all to deal with it all together.

I mean rather than a billion little rebellions against the Ultimate Governor of all creation scattered accross eternity, ONE repository of revolt (AND redemption) accomplished forever.

There are quite a few things I do not know. I do not know what use God has for all that real estate out there midst the galaxies. My suscpicion is that in eternity He has some usage for it. Maybe other beings also will be created.

I don't know. And as to your philosophical problem there, only only offer my opinion which I have at this time.

It makes sense to me that God used the a being to head up under himself ALL conceivable rebellion. He seemed to use this as an opportunity to display his infinite wisdom to principalities and powers.

"In order that now to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenlies the multifarious wisdom of God might be made known through the church. according to the eternal purpose which He made in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Eph. 3:10.11)

Here God is making something known to created authorities - something related to His "eternal purpose" which was made in Christ Jesus. He has a manifaceted wisdom, a multifarious wisdom which cannot be thwarted or defeated. He uses this backround to display this wisdom to rulers in the spiritual realm.

Maybe it is made known to other realms as well. I don't know.

But God wants to mass produce Christ - tified human beings. Jesus is the PROTOTYPE. And the church - and by extension the New Jerusalem is the mass production of the prototype - sons of God, brothers of Christ the FIRSTborn Son of God.

"Because those whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers"

You see? The only begotten Son is the prototype in resurrection of the many sons conformed to His image. God wants to fill the creation with Christ in a corporate way.

And before this verse it says that all things God is able to cause to work together for this "good" purpose -

"And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose." (v.28)

So whatever perplexing unfortune which is the oppositions' backround, God has the power and the authority to cause all things to work together for good to those who love Him and are called according to His eternal purpose.

Originally posted by jaywill
How did Bush get into the conversation ?
Is this a rebuttal in search of a political debate ?

why do you think the only options are to be how god created us with freewill or like robots, are you saying that if our freewill was tweaked so we couldnt be bad we would then be robotic?

It makes sense to me that the potential fo ...[text shortened]... er for good to those who love Him and are called according to His eternal purpose.

i mentioned bush as an example of how millions of people can be fooled by an idiot, so if the average guy on the street can be tricked by an idiot the i see no shame in being tricked by satan, i would expect god to show sympathy for any mortal tricked by god like creature.

i dont think you really answered the question, why do you say if god removed an aspect of our human nature such as our capacity to do bad would be turning us into robots?

i have another question- has there ever been a man and woman alive who wouldnt have eaten the fruit?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
i mentioned bush as an example of how millions of people can be fooled by an idiot, so if the average guy on the street can be tricked by an idiot the i see no shame in being tricked by satan, i would expect god to show sympathy for any mortal tricked by god like creature.

i dont think you really answered the question, why do you say if god removed a ...[text shortened]... ve another question- has there ever been a man and woman alive who wouldnt have eaten the fruit?

The question you asked struck me this way:

"How do I know that after this salvation of Christ when we are transformed, sanctified, conformed to His image, deified and saturated with the fine, uplifted humanity of the Son of God ... HOW do I know there will NOT be another rebellion in the future ?"

Its a good question. I have thought of it long long ago.
I'll think about it, as I have for awhile.

When God's nature is mingled and wrought into the human being in His complete salvation, will there ever be another rebellion ? It cannot be so because of what Revelation says. All these former things have PASSED AWAY.

So I can say that there seems to be NO future for rebellion against God.
Of that much we seem to be assured.

"And He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death will be no more, nor will there be sorrow or crying or pain anymore; for the former things have passed away." (Rev. 21:4)

I'll tell you what. Maybe philosophically I have no rigorous answer. But how about I TAKE it anyway ? Then we can have eternity to meditate on it.

" ... the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and guide them to springs of waters of life; and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes." (Rev. 7:17)

We who are the saved are headed for a world in which there will be no more tears.

By giving ourselves over to the transformation process of sanctification we are HASTENING the day. Rather than delaying the day, we are cooperating on behalf of all mankind, to HASTEN the day -

"Expecting and HASTENING the coming of the day of God, on account of which the heavens, being on fire, will be dissolved, and the elements, burning with intense heat, are to be melted away.

But according to His PROMISE we are expecting new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells." (2 Pet. 3:12,13)

The creation is excecting the manifestation of the sons of God. So I want to cooperate with this grand divine project by receiving Christ into my spirit and allowing Christ to fill my heart.

I am taking part in hastening this marvelous salvation.

Originally posted by jaywill
The question you asked struck me this way:

"How do I know that after this salvation of Christ when we are transformed, sanctified, conformed to His image, deified and saturated with the fine, uplifted humanity of the Son of God ... HOW do I know there will NOT be another rebellion in the future ?"

Its a good question. I have thought of it long long ...[text shortened]... hrist to fill my heart.

I am taking part in hastening this marvelous salvation.

"The question you asked struck me this way:

"How do I know that after this salvation of Christ when we are transformed, sanctified, conformed to His image, deified and saturated with the fine, uplifted humanity of the Son of God ... HOW do I know there will NOT be another rebellion in the future ?"

Its a good question. I have thought of it long long ago.
I'll think about it, as I have for awhile. "

that wasnt what i was asking, but it is something i was asking a bit earlier. i cant argue with your answer, take as long as you want, you may have to pop down to hell to tell me the answer, unless i get e-mail access in the burning pit


"And He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death will be no more, nor will there be sorrow or crying or pain anymore; for the former things have passed away." (Rev. 21:4"

sadness, crying and pain are all integral parts of being a human, if god removes those from us, we will be.............robots!!!!!!!....(did you see what i did there)..

Originally posted by stellspalfie
i mentioned bush as an example of how millions of people can be fooled by an idiot, so if the average guy on the street can be tricked by an idiot the i see no shame in being tricked by satan, i would expect god to show sympathy for any mortal tricked by god like creature.

i dont think you really answered the question, why do you say if god removed a ...[text shortened]... ve another question- has there ever been a man and woman alive who wouldnt have eaten the fruit?

Your ignorance is showing again. George. W. Bush was highly educated. He was a graduate of both Yale and Harvard Universities. It is a myth put out by the the far left liberal democrats that includes most of the news media in this country that began the lie that he was an idiot. They disagreed with his conservative policies and wanted to discredit him. He did make some mistakes by refusing to demand oil from Irag to help pay for the cost of the war. But some one had to stand up against evil in the world as your Tony Blair agreed. You sound like those liberals we have here that don't know their arse from a hole in the ground.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush

Originally posted by RJHinds
Your ignorance is showing again. George. W. Bush was highly educated. He was a graduate of both Yale and Harvard Universities. It is a myth put out by the the far left liberal democrats that includes most of the news media in this country that began the lie that he was an idiot. They disagreed with his conservative policies and wanted to discredit him. ...[text shortened]... don't know their arse from a hole in the ground.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush

are you saying educated people can not be stupid? you spend most of your time on here trying to call the greatest scientific minds of our time stupid!!!

me 1 you 0

yes i am a liberal, well actually im a socialist. blair and bush went to war and have since been proved to be wrong about wmds and have made the situation in the middle east worse than before they started, more muslim kids grow up hating america than before the war, this has means more terrorism for you and me and our kids and their kids to deal with. bush screwed your standing in the world (everybody hates america now) and he screwed your economy (and everybody else's). its people with liberal views that keep this world from war.

tell me this - why did bush choose to go to war with iraq? if it is to defeat evil, why didnt he go war with any of the african dictatorships?

me 2 you 0

Originally posted by stellspalfie
are you saying educated people can not be stupid? you spend most of your time on here trying to call the greatest scientific minds of our time stupid!!!

me 1 you 0

yes i am a liberal, well actually im a socialist. blair and bush went to war and have since been proved to be wrong about wmds and have made the situation in the middle east worse than ...[text shortened]... it is to defeat evil, why didnt he go war with any of the african dictatorships?

me 2 you 0

In my opinion, he was both mislead by his advisers who were chomping at the bit for war and I think in his mind he was saying to himself " I am going to finish the job my daddy didn't" (Bush Sr knew about the balance of power and saw Iraq and Iran as enemies and knew it would be better if they were at loggerheads so he stopped when he got Saddam out of the oil fields and Kuwait)

That is all my opinion of course.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Your ignorance is showing again. George. W. Bush was highly educated. He was a graduate of both Yale and Harvard Universities. It is a myth put out by the the far left liberal democrats that includes most of the news media in this country that began the lie that he was an idiot. They disagreed with his conservative policies and wanted to discredit him. ...[text shortened]... don't know their arse from a hole in the ground.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush

http://politicalhumor.about.com/cs/georgewbush/a/top10bushisms.htm

They've even listed my favorite one as #1.

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you....

(long pause because he totally forgot the saying)

Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002

He was our worst president ever, but he had the BEST and most entertaining gaffes of any president ever. 🙂

Originally posted by RJHinds
Your ignorance is showing again. George. W. Bush was highly educated. He was a graduate of both Yale and Harvard Universities. It is a myth put out by the the far left liberal democrats that includes most of the news media in this country that began the lie that he was an idiot. They disagreed with his conservative policies and wanted to discredit him. ...[text shortened]... don't know their arse from a hole in the ground.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush

G. W. Bush allegedly has an IQ of around 120~130 which is good enough to place him in the top 95 percentile
(in other words out of every 100 people on average 5 would be as smart or smarter) of the population however
he is still an idiot because he didn't use that intellect.

He did and said things that were irrevocably stupid.

The fact that he was intelligent enough that he should have known better makes it worse.


And Tony Blair was a smarmy slimy lying scumbag who should be rotting in jail for the crimes he committed.

Originally posted by googlefudge
G. W. Bush allegedly has an IQ of around 120~130 which is good enough to place him in the top 95 percentile
(in other words out of every 100 people on average 5 would be as smart or smarter) of the population however
he is still an idiot because he didn't use that intellect.

He did and said things that were irrevocably stupid.

The fact that he ...[text shortened]... air was a smarmy slimy lying scumbag who should be rotting in jail for the crimes he committed.

the thing that upsets me most about blair was the hope i had when he got into power. i had escaped the down trodden town of middlesbrough to university, just met my future wife, indie music ruled the charts, and the evil right wing toffs had been beaten destroyed by blair and the labour party......evrything was going so well, it felt like the world was changing, but blair turned out to be thatchers love child and it all turned it all to sht. ill never trust a politician again.

Originally posted by jaywill
Tell me how adultery 2000 years ago was more of a problem than adultery in your 21rst century.

Why be swollen with conceit because of technology? This modernization has not made us less trangressors of the law of God.

Do you think a modern fornicator of the 21rst century will somehow fare better at the judgment day than a fornicator of 2000 years ...[text shortened]... ]"wicked".

Christ extends His cleansing and purifying salvation to you too.[/b]

Yes Jay you are correct. Things are bad now as they were then. BUT it was still different back then on two important points.
The fallen angels were there "in the flesh" and doing all they could to ruin what God created.
None of us were there to see just exactly what was happening and to see the influances these wicked angels were doing and what was happening because of that.
We don't know the physical affects they had on the humans then and the filth they were causing and as a result the possible diseases that were present. Again these were not only wicked angels but their offspring were hybrids and who knows what could result from their physical presence.
So there are many questions that we don't have a clue about, but the one thing the Bible makes real clear is God said that IF he didn't step in and cleanse the earth, ALL flesh, not just human would come to an end. Right? So something bigger then we can imagine now must have been happening for God to do what he felt he had to do to save mankind.
And if only those 8 people were all that was left on the entire planet that God viewed as clean and righteous, it had to be bad and God had to arrange for their safety in an ark.
One thing we do know about God and his fairness to anyone in reguards to letting them live and not fall to distruction was the example of Lot who asked God to let even just a few that might have been good in Sodom & Gomorah, live. God agreed did he not? But there were none.
So when ones complain that God was unfair to destroy all but 8 in the flood, one does not know God and how he would never kill a just person.
All that have died at God's hand, were killed for a reason and it was never an unfair one.

Originally posted by googlefudge



And Tony Blair was a smarmy slimy lying scumbag who should be rotting in jail for the crimes he committed.[/b]

Why the past tense, has He died?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
are you saying educated people can not be stupid? you spend most of your time on here trying to call the greatest scientific minds of our time stupid!!!

me 1 you 0

yes i am a liberal, well actually im a socialist. blair and bush went to war and have since been proved to be wrong about wmds and have made the situation in the middle east worse than it is to defeat evil, why didnt he go war with any of the african dictatorships?

me 2 you 0

I know anyone can be an educated fool and believe and do stupid things. But G. W. Bush was not a stupid person. He was a very good governor of the state of Texas. He got some bad advice on how to handle the war against al-Qaeda and should have put more effort in Afghanistan in the beginning to get their leader Osama Bin Laden. But due to the connection and support that al-Qaeda was receiving through Iraq, it became a great concern that if Iraq had WMD and al-Qaeda got some that they would surely ues them aganist the USA. In additon Saddam Hussein was defying the United Nations Security Council Resolution 688 and shooting at our planes that were flying over Irag in an attempt to enforce the resolution. We also needed to protect our oil interests in the Middle East and our only democratic ally in the region, Israel. I think we should have brought more military force to bare in order to bring the war to a close as soon as possible. But will little support from those European nations we thought were or allies, like France, we were somewhat limited in our actions.

In my opinion, it was actions from the democratic opposition and from the greedy that screwed our economy more than the war. However the war did cost a lot of money, but if we had grabbed oil rights from Iraq, we could have recouped that in a short time. The war in Iraq did topple an evil dictator and gave the people more freedom and many in Iraq were very happy to see it take place. But being a Muslim country with two competing religious groups that believe in killing the other to gain power, a democratic form of government that we tried to put in seems doomed for failure.

The USA does not have the resources to fight all dictators all over the world. We need allies that are not too cowardly to step up and help. Besides the African dictators seemed no threat to us at the time and we had to choose our priorities.

By the way, I have never called the greatest scientific minds of our time stupid.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
http://politicalhumor.about.com/cs/georgewbush/a/top10bushisms.htm

They've even listed my favorite one as #1.

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you....

(long pause because he totally forgot the saying)[quote]Fool me — you can't get fooled again. ...[text shortened]... president ever, but he had the BEST and most entertaining gaffes of any president ever. 🙂

I don't think G.W. Bush is the worst president. Some of the worst things did happen while he was president, but it is not right to blame everything on him.

Originally posted by kevcvs57
Why the past tense, has He died?

I don't know too much about Tony Blair as Prime Minister, but at least he did not turn his back on the USA as an ally and he seemed to be a very intelligent person.