Scientific Skepticism

Originally posted by RJHinds
Blasphemy.

You're guilty of blasphemy for suggesting that? Isn't that like a bad thing among you christians? 😲

Originally posted by RJHinds
Okay, you just meant I was stupid on some things. I get it.

No, I meant you begin the journey properly with your ideas that DNA is basically 'God's Toolbox' (disclaimer: I know you did not use these words, they are my words to describe it in a nutshell), even though DNA is not mentioned in the Bible (and rightfully so, what man of 1500 BC could guess what DNA is?). You then take a sharp right turn and refuse to believe anything that isn't 'spelled out in Genesis' (again, my words). Why can't the same physics we take for granted in this universe be a simple tool of God to create? Why can't evolution be another tool of God to bring Man up from out of the dust of the earth? DNA can be a tool, and yet evolution and the Big Bang cannot be? Why do you believe one and not the other?

You accept that God has tools of creation, and you claim DNA is 'obviously' one of them. But then you blind yourself to the logical continuation of this concept. You start well, but it ends badly. Why?? What is holding you back from continuing to use the mind that God has endowed us with?

Originally posted by Suzianne
No, I meant you begin the journey properly with your ideas that DNA is basically 'God's Toolbox' (disclaimer: I know you did not use these words, they are my words to describe it in a nutshell), even though DNA is not mentioned in the Bible (and rightfully so, what man of 1500 BC could guess what DNA is?). You then take a sharp right turn and refuse to bel ...[text shortened]... . Why?? What is holding you back from continuing to use the mind that God has endowed us with?

DNA does not contradict plants and animals having seed within them to reproduce after the kind God created them to be as the Holy Bible says. Evolution claims a plant or animal kind changes to other kinds by small mutations over millions or billions of years, but the Holy Bible clearly says the kinds were separately created in less than six days.

The Holy Bible tells us that man was created and made from the elements of the earth in less than a day and in the image of God. God did not take a monkey and evolve it into a man. You must make a decision to believe God and Christ or the devil's illusion of evolution and billions of years.

Originally posted by RJHinds
DNA does not contradict plants and animals having seed within them to reproduce after the kind God created them to be as the Holy Bible says. Evolution claims a plant or animal kind changes to other kinds by small mutations over millions or billions of years, but the Holy Bible clearly says the kinds were separately created in less than six days.

The Hol ...[text shortened]... a decision to believe God and Christ or the devil's illusion of evolution and billions of years.

Well, at least I can be glad you at least recognize DNA as a tool of God. Perhaps one day your eyes can be opened to the rest of the truth. You're part way there already, but it will take someone with far more skill than I have as an educator to convince you. Someone who can get inside your head and see what is causing you to 1) reject the current state of man's knowledge and 2) not be able to move on from the limited knowledge and terminology of ancient man.

As I said, the fact that you accept DNA is a start, but it's only the beginning. I envy you in a small way, because you have a fascinating journey of discovery ahead of you, if you can reach beyond the words written by and to an ancient people with limited knowledge.

Flex your mind a bit, it should help with the journey ahead. You can start with a fuller understanding of Revelation, if you dare. 🙂

Originally posted by Suzianne
Well, at least I can be glad you at least recognize DNA as a tool of God. Perhaps one day your eyes can be opened to the rest of the truth. You're part way there already, but it will take someone with far more skill than I have as an educator to convince you. Someone who can get inside your head and see what is causing you to 1) reject the current state ...[text shortened]... th the journey ahead. You can start with a fuller understanding of Revelation, if you dare. 🙂

So you believe the words of Genesis 1 should not be taken literally, but have some mystical meaning that only certain people, like yourself, can understand?

Originally posted by RJHinds
So you believe the words of Genesis 1 should not be taken literally, but have some mystical meaning that only certain people, like yourself, can understand?

No, that's not what I am saying. Mystical? Not at all. God knew one day we would be a technologically advanced species. All one has to do is blend the old with the new. For example, we know the earth is 4.5 billion years old, so it's clear it wasn't made in less than 6 24-hour days. I think what's clear from an examination of Genesis is that the days mentioned are far longer than one single day. Elsewhere in the Bible, we are given the key. There is a passage that states a day to God is as a thousand years. So a day doesn't have to be a day. It doesn't even have to be a thousand years, it could be far longer. It could be a long time to man, yet only as a day to God. It makes perfect sense and has the added bonus of not making us look like idiots when we try to talk science with our peers.

Originally posted by Suzianne
I think what's clear from an examination of Genesis is that the days mentioned are far longer than one single day.

So do you still believe the days were in the order mentioned in Genesis? Was life created in the order listed?

Originally posted by twhitehead
So do you still believe the days were in the order mentioned in Genesis? Was life created in the order listed?

Look, it's been a long time since Sunday School, I wasn't expecting a quiz.

I could go take a look and let you know.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Look, it's been a long time since Sunday School, I wasn't expecting a quiz.

I could go take a look and let you know.

I am not quizzing you, merely wondering whether you believe:
a) The Bible is accurate about the order of creation, but somewhat flexible about lengths of 'days' as per your explanation to RJ regarding a day being like a thousand years.
b) The description in Genesis is not meant to be taken as literal account of the exact order of creation.

Although your comment is rather odd given that you just said:

I think what's clear from an examination of Genesis....

Now suddenly you haven't read Genesis since Sunday school?

Originally posted by Suzianne
No, that's not what I am saying. Mystical? Not at all. God knew one day we would be a technologically advanced species. All one has to do is blend the old with the new. For example, we know the earth is 4.5 billion years old, so it's clear it wasn't made in less than 6 24-hour days. I think what's clear from an examination of Genesis is that the days ...[text shortened]... as the added bonus of not making us look like idiots when we try to talk science with our peers.

We don't know that the earth is 4.5 billion years old. It is clear that the days of creation are regular 24 hours days like we measure days because it was specifically provided for man's understanding of measuring of time.

2 Peter 3:8–9 reads:

‘But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.’

The first thing to note that the context has nothing to do with the days of creation. Also, it is not defining a day because it doesn’t say ‘a day is a thousand years’.

The text says ‘one day is like [or as] a thousand years’—the word ‘like’ (or ‘as' ) shows that it is a figure of speech, called a simile, to teach that God is outside of time (because He is the Creator of time itself).

See:
http://creation.com/2-peter-38-one-day-is-like-a-thousand-years

Originally posted by RJHinds
We don't know that the earth is 4.5 billion years old. It is clear that the days of creation are regular 24 hours days like we measure days because it was specifically provided for man's understanding of measuring of time.

2 Peter 3:8–9 reads:

[quote] ‘But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a ...[text shortened]... reator of time itself).

See:
http://creation.com/2-peter-38-one-day-is-like-a-thousand-years

It's interesting you chose to ignore the slow changes going on in places like the Grand Canyon, where we have actual photographs from that natural wonder over 100 years old now, which is 1/60th of your supposed age of the Earth. In those 100+ years it shows changes that clearly indicate the river being a lot higher a million years ago by inference. That is solid evidence of the changes undergone in the GC. Of course you will undoubtedly find some asssinine rational for that one too.

Originally posted by sonhouse
It's interesting you chose to ignore the slow changes going on in places like the Grand Canyon, where we have actual photographs from that natural wonder over 100 years old now, which is 1/60th of your supposed age of the Earth. In those 100+ years it shows changes that clearly indicate the river being a lot higher a million years ago by inference. That is ...[text shortened]... dergone in the GC. Of course you will undoubtedly find some asssinine rational for that one too.

The up-to-date actual geology of Mount St. Helens trumps the old fairy tale geology of the Grand Canyon.

http://www.genesisalive.com/grand-canyon-event-horizon.html

Originally posted by RJHinds
The up-to-date actual geology of Mount St. Helens trumps the old fairy tale geology of the Grand Canyon.

http://www.genesisalive.com/grand-canyon-event-horizon.html

Oh sure, a local volcano really shows up that slow digging river. NOT. Where do you get this hilarious stuff? When you put up crap like that, how do you expect anyone to take you seriously?

Originally posted by Suzianne
No, I meant you begin the journey properly with your ideas that DNA is basically 'God's Toolbox' (disclaimer: I know you did not use these words, they are my words to describe it in a nutshell), even though DNA is not mentioned in the Bible (and rightfully so, what man of 1500 BC could guess what DNA is?). You then take a sharp right turn and refuse to bel ...[text shortened]... . Why?? What is holding you back from continuing to use the mind that God has endowed us with?

Good post, but it makes me wonder about one thing: since you are clearly "accepting" evolution (such a weird thing to say, like saying "I accept gravity to exist" ) does this also mean that if God doesn't interfere at some point - I know you believe the apocalypse will likely happen within the next 100 years or so - human kind may very well evolve in such a fashion that "we" end up being completely different to what we are today? So, for instance, "we'll" end up looking and sounding nothing like Jesus?

Originally posted by Great King Rat
Good post, but it makes me wonder about one thing: since you are clearly "accepting" evolution (such a weird thing to say, like saying "I accept gravity to exist" ) does this also mean that if God doesn't interfere at some point - I know you believe the apocalypse will likely happen within the next 100 years or so - human kind may very well evolve in ...[text shortened]... to what we are today? So, for instance, "we'll" end up looking and sounding nothing like Jesus?

Not likely.

Man has already been around longer than 100 years. It's been far longer than 100 years just since Jesus walked the earth. 100 years is nothing in evolutionary terms.

Man's not going to evolve into something unrecognizable in the next 100 years.