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18 Jun 18
2 edits
This is meant for the fans of the book of James.
Oh, I love the book of James too.
I love the entire Bible.
Here's the first question.
Suppose a man turns his life over to Jesus Christ today. In three months he realizes that he still has a problem with, say, pornography, girly magazines, and X rated movies.
Does that Christian have something from which he still needs to be SAVED ? .
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18 Jun 18
WHERE are the "Faith Without Works is Dead" cheerleaders ?
A Christian gets saved and realizes after months or YEARS that he is still addicted to pornography, or stinginess, or selfishness, or depression, or greed, or anxiety ... or some begetting failure ...
WHERE is the book to him telling him that apparently he still needs to be SAVED from stuff ?
WHERE is the New Testament book telling him that something in him is DEAD though he has some faith ?
James is one of the books for that fellow.
Such a man has been BORN of God, he has been already BORN AGAIN. Where? Here.
"He brought us forth by the word of truth, purposing that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures." (JAMES 1:18)
Yet such a begotten one of God by the word of truth still needs some SAVING.
"What is the profit, my brothers, if anyone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?" (2:14)
Practically the Christians still needs SAVING from a lot of things, including a cold apathetic heart towards another Christian brother for example.
" If a brother or sister is without clothing nd lacks daily food, and any one of you says to them, Go in pece, be warmed and filled, yet you do not give them the necessitates of the body what is the profit?
So also faith, if it does not have works, is dead in itself." (vs. 15-17) [/b]
It should be evident that James is counteracting the neglect of practical Christian virtue. Such faith is of no practical profit in this immediate setting of daily life.
He is not saying "Your eternal redemption is in question. You have lost your eternal life."
He is saying "In the immediacy of practical Christian living, of what profit is your faith without works?"
The Christians needs SAVING from living apart from the movement of Christ within his heart.
The book of James is not a contradiction to the assurance of eternal life / eternal redemption.
18 Jun 18
Originally posted by @sonshipSuppose this man is FMF.
This is meant for the fans of the book of [b]James.
Oh, I love the book of James too.
I love the entire Bible.
Here's the first question.
Suppose a man turns his life over to Jesus Christ today. In three months he realizes that he still has a problem with, say, pornography, girly magazines, and X rated movies.
Does that Christian have something from which he still needs to be SAVED ? .[/b]
Suppose a man turns his heart to Christ but then decides that Jesus is not God and that the Bible is a pack of lies?
18 Jun 18
Originally posted by @eladarThen he rejects God's Word, God's teachings, and rejects Christ. And for that, unless he changes, he will receive harsher punishment than if he never knew anything about Christ. At least that's what the bible says. But since it's a "pack of lies" I have to assume he couldn't care less.
Suppose this man is FMF.
Suppose a man turns his heart to Christ but then decides that Jesus is not God and that the Bible is a pack of lies?
18 Jun 18
Originally posted by @tom-wolseySo if he continues it shows he was never saved at all.
Then he rejects God's Word, God's teachings, and rejects Christ. And for that, unless he changes, he will receive harsher punishment than if he never knew anything about Christ. At least that's what the bible says. But since it's a "pack of lies" I have to assume he couldn't care less.
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18 Jun 18
Originally posted by @eladarWas he initially saved or not? Did Eladar specify that he was saved when he said , “Then he rejects God's Word, God's teachings, and rejects Christ.” Didn’t Eladar specify that unless he changes, “he will receive harsher punishment than if he never knew anything about Christ.” What is this intermediate state of having greater punishment for knowing something about Christ, but not being saved? It sounds like the two of you trying to set up a straw man called FMF, and are more or less blowing it.
So if he continues it shows he was never saved at all.
18 Jun 18
Originally posted by @js357Looks ike you are ignorant of sonships osas theology.
Was he initially saved or not? Did Eladar specify that he was saved when he said , “Then he rejects God's Word, God's teachings, and rejects Christ.” Didn’t Eladar specify that unless he changes, “he will receive harsher punishment than if he never knew anything about Christ.” What is this intermediate state of having greater punishment for knowing something ...[text shortened]... ds like the two of you trying to set up a straw man called FMF, and are more or less blowing it.
So stay out of something which you understand nothing about. You are just causing confusion and embarrassing yourself at the same time.
18 Jun 18
Originally posted by @eladarThat would be my opinion, yes.
So if he continues it shows he was never saved at all.
18 Jun 18
Originally posted by @js357Well see this is where you are without a clue. We are not trying to determine truth but expose nut job satanic theology.
Well that settles it, then.
Sonship is stuck. He must claim fmf is actually saved even if fmf dies renouncing Jesus and the Bible.
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18 Jun 18
2 edits
Originally posted by @eladar
Looks ike you are ignorant of sonships osas theology.
You are about to be made an example of again, as your lying habit of saying I twisted John 14:16; Eph.1:13,14; Eph. 4:30.
So stay out of something which you understand nothing about. You are just causing confusion and embarrassing yourself at the same time.
Yet you seem to invoke FMF's name as if you indirectly want him to come and help you out, perhaps?
Then you jump on JS357 for being involved?
Apparantly you want FMF to be involved.
Why not then JS357?
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18 Jun 18
2 edits
Elader,
Let's look at James.
The audience of the letter of James have been brought forth by the Father. They have been regenerated by God.
"He brought us forth by the word of truth, purposing that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures." (James 1:18)
To these who have been born of God James is exhorting about unprofitable FAITH. The realm of this ineffective faith does not concern their being without a life relationship with God, saving them in that sense.
it concerns their need to be SAVED from living a low level of Christian virtue.
"What is the profit, my brothers, if any says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?" (2:14)
The question here is is what his MOUTH SPEAKS of any profit to him being SAVED.
That answer is that his MERE SPEAKING is unprofitable to his salvation in this sense. But what IS the salvation of the context? It is not about salvation from not being eternally redeemed from God's wrath.
It is a salvation from living a low level of Christian ethical behavior. This is PROVED beyond a doubt by the EXAMPLE which James goes on to show what he SPEAKS verses what he DOES.
"If a brother or sister is without clothing and lacks daily food, And any one of you ... SAYS ... Go in peace, be warmed and filled, ... yet you do not give them the necessities of the body WHAT IS THE PROFIT?
So also faith, if it does not have works, is dead in itself." (vs. 15-17)
In this case you critics of mere SPEAKING are right.
The Christian brother has gone without the necessities normal Christian virtue should furnish.
The apathetic Christian's speaking is without practical works. He remains unsaved as far as his low and uncaring soul is concerned.
The useless faith here is in terms of the transformation of his SOUL not the eternal redemption of His having the GIFT of eternal life.
James is rightly saying that this aspect of FAITH and WORKS to evidence FAITH should not be neglected. This is not the ONLY place in the NT where such an exhortation occurs.
18 Jun 18
Originally posted by @sonshipNo, the question is aimed at you and I would appreciate a direct answer.Looks ike you are ignorant of sonships osas theology.
You are about to me made an example of again, as your lying habit of saying I twisted [b]John 14:16; Eph.1:13,14; Eph. 4:30.
...[text shortened]... jump on JS357 for being involved?
So stay out of something which you understand nothing about. You are just causing confusion and embarrassing yourself at the same time.
Apparantly you want FMF to be involved.
Why not then JS357?[/b]
Is FMF saved even if he dies rejecting Christ?
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18 Jun 18
Originally posted by @eladarOK I’ll settle down and look forward to his opinion on this hypothetical man’s fate.
Well see this is where you are without a clue. We are not trying to determine truth but expose nut job satanic theology.
Sonship is stuck. He must claim fmf is actually saved even if fmf dies renouncing Jesus and the Bible.
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18 Jun 18
Originally posted by @eladarI am not here to conduct the last judgment for anyone on this Forum.
No, the question is aimed at you and I would appreciate a direct answer.
Is FMF saved even if he dies rejecting Christ?
If you want to talk about what James means by Faith without works is DEAD, I have explained some of that.
Do you have a question or comment about what I wrote there?