Simple Truth of Christ

Originally posted by divegeester
I ask you again, why are you so anti-Christian?

It's beside the point.

To answer your question:
I'm anti christian when it comes to people calling themselves christian only.
"True christians" I have no problem with, and they often find me to be an amicable, friendly ,helpful person.
Then there is a lot of that old school christian jive (christian history) that seems misinformative.
But some good has come through the bible and I've seen some genuinely good christians. So I wouldn't say I'm real anti-christian.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
the real christian way is so hard, that few people, if any are on it.

you won't find many willing to give all they own to charity and living in poverty spreading the message of christ. living and dying for him.

Hard compared to what we first world people are used to.

I dont think the picture you painted is hard at all, if you know what's important.

Obviously single people will find it easier, but there is a way to be christian within a family situation as well.
I don think your example is the only good christian example.
I think there are various "valid" paths to spirituality.

Originally posted by knightmeister
Well , for example , following Christ and the prompting of the Spirit cost Simon Peter his life.

But if you are Christian, that is no biggie. If anything it is a welcome relief from the troubles of this life.

The Christian path is not an easy path. We need to ask ourselves if we are prepared to do what God might ask of us. Most are not called to martyrdom obviously but it might cost you a friendship for example.
Why do you think God actively punishes his followers?
Why would doing what God asks even be considered a choice if you truly believe?

Probably the biggest cost would be kissing goodbye to all that " it's my life and I can do what I like with it " thinking.

So God takes away your free will? That seems odd, considering that he gave it to you in the first place.

Originally posted by knightmeister
The Christian faith is really simple when it comes down to it. Jesus said that if we want to get to know him and follow his ways then he would come to us and "make his home with us"

How does he do this? Via the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit of God dwells with men and can be known by men if we seek Him. The Christian witness to those who don't know G ...[text shortened]... rit then you will never be the same again - guaranteed. So count the cost folks

How does a person know truth when they go to their Bible for truth and it teaches them error and falsity?

When a person embraces religion they are expecting to receive transcendental/spiritual knowledge and be led in truth.

How can doctrine which was compiled by womanisers, intoxicators and animal killers deliver spiritual knowledge to the people when its doctrine is invented from their mundane imagination.

There is much proof because one only needs to read the Christian doctrine and it presents so much error and falsity.

Religion must not present one iota of error or else it is suspect.

But if religion presents nearly the entirety of its doctrine with error - then it is obscene.

True religion MUST be eternal because God is eternal..............and Christianity is not eternal but has only been fabricated recently in history.

This single fact alone - is enough to show that Christianity is not authorized.- along with other recent religions such as Judaism and Islam.

True religion respects the life of every creature and never systematically operates slaughter houses to kill billions of animals each year for profit.

The cow is considered our mother because she nourishes our babies with her milk - and she is never killed but instead revered as the mother she is.

Any religion that kills the cow is abominable and disgusting beyond words - and the people who defend that pseudo religion are the lowest of mankind.

The sickly sweet false words of love and compassion and Jesus loves you - is all but worthless empty pretence while billions of animals are slaughtered in cruel conditions all over the world each year.

Such are the cruel conditions in slaughter houses - that only recently live exports overseas of cattle was stopped.

While false religion mis-guides the entire world with false knowledge - it remains ineffective to bring love of God to the people.

To defend false religion in light of these facts is to be thoroughly insincere and dishonest.

True religion is one.............as taught by the eternal Vedic teachings.

Going on-line will never reveal the mysteries of true religion..............and in fact you shall only become disoriented and confused because to understand true religion one must embrace it and live it.

Originally posted by Dasa
When a person embraces religion they are expecting to receive transcendental/spiritual knowledge and be led in truth.

nah, that usually means they have given up the search and decided to accept some half-baked scheme for the truth that they'll never find.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
So being a christians easy now is it?
Make up your minds.
What does Suzianne think?

What do you think jaywill? Is the christian path hard or easy?

It is both hard and easy. For example , it is hard when everything inside you wants to give in to temptation and go your own way and you chose through faith and the power of the Spirit to go the other way. It is hard to think that God might ask you to do something that might cost you a friend , some money or your life even.

But it is easy when you receive the comfort of his Spirit and a clean conscience in Christ.

The answer is both. It's just a different way of living. It's a way of sacrifice and surrender. The whole "make up your minds" quip is just a cheap shot and a strawman at that.

Originally posted by twhitehead
But if you are Christian, that is no biggie. If anything it is a welcome relief from the troubles of this life.

[b]The Christian path is not an easy path. We need to ask ourselves if we are prepared to do what God might ask of us. Most are not called to martyrdom obviously but it might cost you a friendship for example.
Why do you think God activ s away your free will? That seems odd, considering that he gave it to you in the first place.[/b]

You ask many of the questions I used to ask in my past.

"Why would doing what God asks even be considered a choice if you truly believe?" Whitey

KM (response) - Most Christians are a mixture of belief and unbelief in different mixtures. That's why faith is a choice. It's a choice to go with what you know you believe inside but the other parts of you war against that choice. Even Jesus experienced this in the Garden of Gethsemane. His emotions , fear and terror caused him to ask the Father if another way was possible , but in the end his faith and trust in his Father won the day. The Spirit of obedience within him won out over his own desire to avoid what God had planned for him. That was the choice.

If you think my point is erroneous , think about a time when you were faced with a moral dilemma or situation where you knew what you believed the right thing to do , but there were other factors there as well. Is it always easy to be true to our morals and beliefs? If you are honest with yourself you will recognize that human beings are very good at changing what they "believe" according to what it might cost them or how awkward it might make life . Therefore , it has to be a choice to decide to stay true to what is right - there's a cost. We have to make sacrifices.

Originally posted by Dasa
How does a person know truth when they go to their Bible for truth and it teaches them error and falsity?

When a person embraces religion they are expecting to receive transcendental/spiritual knowledge and be led in truth.

How can doctrine which was compiled by womanisers, intoxicators and animal killers deliver spiritual knowledge to the people when its ...[text shortened]... me disoriented and confused because to understand true religion one must embrace it and live it.

"True religion MUST be eternal because God is eternal..............and Christianity is not eternal but has only been fabricated recently in history."

Dasa
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I would agree - God is eternal - the question is , where is he? This Christian faith is very clear about this - He is here with us. He is present , right by our side , closer than our very breath.

Where is your eternal god? Is he here with us where he should be in our suffering and pains? How will you "embrace and live it" if God does not give you his power to do so?

Do you not see how Christianity is so radically different? It's not about "teachings" - it's about the power of the Holy Spirit - here - with us- RIGHT NOW!

Originally posted by LemonJello
Wow, knightmeister is back. Nice to see you again.

I see, however, that you still suck at witnessing.

How many times does this need to be pointed out to you? For someone who has no good reasons under their attention in favor of the proposition that God exists, it is simply a question-begging process for them to ask God to reveal His existence to t ...[text shortened]... give this person some evidential reasons for the proposition that God exists in the first place.

"You would do better to actually try to give this person some evidential reasons for the proposition that God exists in the first place. " - lemonjello

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Nice to hear from you matey!

My evidence would be the Holy Spirit. Have you never felt Him strengthening you in a difficult situation? Ever had any spiritual experiences or felt loved by something or someone that you couldn't understand? When you finally realize who God is you will look back and see that you had been standing in God's presence many times , you just didn't realize it. On that day you will say "Oh....Father...that was you all along!" On that day intellectual arguments about pascal's wager and free will will pale into insignificance compared to the knowledge of his Spirit with you.

Originally posted by knightmeister
"You would do better to actually try to give this person some evidential reasons for the proposition that God exists in the first place. " - lemonjello

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Nice to hear from you matey!

My evidence would be the Holy Spirit. Have you never felt Him st ...[text shortened]... ree will will pale into insignificance compared to the knowledge of his Spirit with you.

My evidence would be the Holy Spirit.

That is not evidence. I asked for some evidential reasons or considerations, in virtue of which the proposition that God exists is more plausible. "The Holy Spirit" does not qualify.

Your argument here is tremendously bad. You basically claim that there are experiences in my life (such as the experience of feeling strengthened in difficult situations; or feelings of love) that are properly attributable to the Holy Spirit; and that I should be inferring (abductively) from these instances to the existence of God as an explanatory component. However, nowhere do you justify any of this. Nowhere do you explain why I, or anyone else, should think that explanations invoking the existence of God are better here than explanations that do not invoke the existence of God. And, you clearly do not understand the role of parsimony when it comes to inference to the best explanation. To posit the existence of some supernatural being just to explain some of these natural occurrences (of which there are straightforward natural explanations) is just profligate. It is just sloppy on your part to infer to the need to invoke the existence of some supernatural being anytime you encounter something you do not understand. Furthermore, and relatedly, it is sloppy on your part to infer to the need to ascribe agency unto everything you do not understand. What ever happened to saying "I do not understand" in cases where one does not understand? Or how about trying to understand through research on the topic? For example, you do not understand how feelings of love could arise under only natural influences and without some overarching orchestrating agency? Why not try to do some actual research on the topic before invoking a whole new extra-natural category and attributing supernatural agency to the whole thing? FYI, it's actually pretty easy to explain feelings of love within an evolutionary explanatory framework.

Originally posted by knightmeister
It is both hard and easy. For example , it is hard when everything inside you wants to give in to temptation and go your own way and you chose through faith and the power of the Spirit to go the other way. It is hard to think that God might ask you to do something that might cost you a friend , some money or your life even.

But it is easy when you urrender. The whole "make up your minds" quip is just a cheap shot and a strawman at that.

So you basically agree with me that the universe/"God" is essentially paradoxical?

Because thats the only way I can comprehend it.
I think you have to go with your own flow, and try to co-exist with the "Great Magnet", ie "God".
Whether christian or not we will all have to go through certain life processes that, if people dont realize why things are happening to them the way they are likely to wind up with a mid-life crisis.
Clinging to the material.

I reckon the first half of our life is "coming out" (procreating,"living life",travelling,etc. ), but the second part of life is for returning to the foetal position, recoiling and reflecting on one's life. Meditating. Getting ready to "die consiously" (as Timothy Leary put it).
His last book was prolly his best. All about dying consiously. About facing your own mortality,etc.
He also bought out a cd to accompany that book, which was very good meditating music, as I recall it.

"The simple truth of Christ" , is not entirely different from the" simple truth of Gautam Buddha", for example.
I know that christians think that there is no one better than JC to have walked the Earth - but I beg to differ.
Anyway, it's not a race 🙂

Originally posted by knightmeister
When you finally realize who God is you will look back and see that you had been standing in God's presence many times , you just didn't realize it. On that day you will say "Oh....Father...that was you all along!" On that day intellectual arguments about pascal's wager and free will will pale into insignificance compared to the knowledge of his Spirit with you.

Its always funny how often theists present as 'evidence' some hypothetical future situation in which the other person will come to believe as they do.

Originally posted by knightmeister
If you think my point is erroneous ,

Actually I think your point was good and well thought out.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Its always funny how often theists present as 'evidence' some hypothetical future situation in which the other person will come to believe as they do.

Yeah, I really dont know why christians cant embrace diversity more. I believe thats what "God" wants- ie "Rainbow People"
People of all colors and races with their own particular cultural colorings.
Thats why I like Hinduism. It embraces diversity. It acknowledges that there is more than one path to "God", something that Dasa (and of course the christians)seem to have blatantly overlooked.

No, people will not become to know what they think. People will make up their own minds.
Time to shake of the shackles of history and embrace a paradoxical, although harmonious future with all the people that "get on board" .
"Getting on board" to me implies that people will find their own dharmas, their own life paths. We need skeptics just as much as we need dreamers ... and the rest.

"God" is not so black and white after all ...🙂

Originally posted by knightmeister
The Christian faith is really simple when it comes down to it. Jesus said that if we want to get to know him and follow his ways then he would come to us and "make his home with us"

How does he do this? Via the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit of God dwells with men and can be known by men if we seek Him. The Christian witness to those who don't know G ...[text shortened]... rit then you will never be the same again - guaranteed. So count the cost folks

God can be experienced through all religions not just Christianity . That is the simple truth .