31 Jan 12
Originally posted by knightmeisterThe Vedas explain in detail how God is manifest in our hearts as the Super Soul.
"True religion MUST be eternal because God is eternal..............and Christianity is not eternal but has only been fabricated recently in history."
Dasa
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I would agree - God is eternal - the question is , where is he? This Christian faith is very ...[text shortened]... about "teachings" - it's about the power of the Holy Spirit - here - with us- RIGHT NOW!
Have you read this?
Everything about God is in the Vedas in great detail.
I do not present personal information about God in this forum - for no person is qualified in this forum to hear this intimate detailed knowledge about the Lord.
They would simply disrespect it.
However if there is one person who is sincere and honest - they shall seek out this personal information about God for themselves from the Vedas.
Or they can at least ask me where they can find that information by sending me a personal message ...........and I would be glad to help them.
* Intimate knowledge of God shall not be disrespected in this circus of a forum.
Actually I will start a new thread about this subject very soon and explain it in more detail.
31 Jan 12
Originally posted by knightmeisterI know Christians would like to believe that all Christians have the Holy Spirit in them, but there is just no Biblical support for that.
.. , Jesus said "you will know the truth and the truth will set you free" - that truth is that God's Holy Spirit is alive and well and moving amongst men. ..
What you feel inside you is not necessarily the Holy Spirit and is has nothing to do with what Christ said. Here is what he said :
John 8:31-32 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
So clearly it is not as simple as proclaiming your belief in Christ and then you get the Holy Spirit in you. That is just plain nonsense. Neither can you claim that all Christians worth their salt have the Holy Spirit in them. You dont know that.
Christ said
- IF you believe in him
- IF you continue in His word .. that means to keep His commandments.
- THEN you are his disciples.
- THEN the truth shall make them free.
To continue in the commandments of Christ, is a lifetime of the works which Christ commanded us to do.
31 Jan 12
Originally posted by DasaTake your unbelief and your poison lies elsewhere.
The Vedas explain in detail how God is manifest in our hearts as the Super Soul.
Have you read this?
Everything about God is in the Vedas in great detail.
I do not present personal information about God in this forum - for no person is qualified in this forum to hear this intimate detailed knowledge about the Lord.
They would simply disrespect it. ...[text shortened]...
Actually I will start a new thread about this subject very soon and explain it in more detail.
There are Christians here who know the truth, and you will not take one of us and turn him from the truth. You will not appease your appetite for sin at our expense, so stop. Begone, serpent!
31 Jan 12
Originally posted by SuzianneLOL!!!!!!!
Take your unbelief and your poison lies elsewhere.
There are Christians here who know the truth, and you will not take one of us and turn him from the truth. You will not appease your appetite for sin at our expense, so stop. Begone, serpent!
There are Christians here who know the truth, and you will not take one of us and turn him from the truth. You will not appease your appetite for sin at our expense, so stop. Begone, serpent!
31 Jan 12
1 edit
Originally posted by DasaThat doesn't logically follow. If God is so inaccessible that people may literally spend millions of lifetimes trying to find him (as you said in another thread), then wouldn't it seem natural that imperfect man didn't begin the 'true religion' until after many many years of trying and searching?
True religion MUST be eternal because God is eternal......
31 Jan 12
Originally posted by SuzianneAlthough you are generally better spoken than dasa, there are times when some similarities arise ....
Take your unbelief and your poison lies elsewhere.
There are Christians here who know the truth, and you will not take one of us and turn him from the truth. You will not appease your appetite for sin at our expense, so stop. Begone, serpent!
01 Feb 12
5 edits
Originally posted by Rajk999
I know Christians would like to believe that all Christians have the Holy Spirit in them, but there is just no Biblical support for that.
What you feel inside you is not necessarily the Holy Spirit and is has nothing to do with what Christ said. Here is what he said :
[i]John 8:31-32 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue ...[text shortened]... tinue in the commandments of Christ, is a lifetime of the works which Christ commanded us to do.
I know Christians would like to believe that all Christians have the Holy Spirit in them, but there is just no Biblical support for that.[/i]
Yes there is.
"Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him." (Rom. 8:9)
If you have the Spirit of Christ you are of Christ - a Christian.
If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ he is not of Christ.
He is not a Christian.
What you feel inside you is not necessarily the Holy Spirit and is has nothing to do with what Christ said. Here is what he said :
It may be true that you "feel" something which is not the Holy Spirit.
That does not change Romans 8:9 one bit.
John 8:31-32 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
On THIS side of the resurrection of Christ - "If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ he is not of Him."
Who is a "disciple" or "Christian" before the coming of the Holy Spirit may be interesting debate. I mean Judas Iscariot was one of the "disciples" of Jesus.
I think your argument obscures the simple truth. The Christian is one who has within the Spirit of Christ - the Holy Spirit.
So clearly it is not as simple as proclaiming your belief in Christ and then you get the Holy Spirit in you.
I think you are setting yourself up as a judge.
I think you want to be the one to "approve" of who is a Christian and who is not.
" ... no one can say, Jesus is Lord! except in the Holy Spirit" (1 Cor. 12:3)
It seems that you want to change this to suit your judgmental approval of who has the right to call themselves a Christian and who does not have that right.
On the surface it appears as your concern for orthodoxy. But I fear beneath the surface is a judgmental attitude that people must pass your approval to call themselves Christians.
That is just plain nonsense. Neither can you claim that all Christians worth their salt have the Holy Spirit in them. You dont know that.
Christ said
- IF you believe in him
- IF you continue in His word .. that means to keep His commandments.
- THEN you are his disciples.
- THEN the truth shall make them free.
This is more about the quality of a man's witness.
There are victorious Christians.
There are defeated Christians.
There are backslidden Christians.
There are progressing and growing Christians.
There are Christians at varying levels of maturity.
Obviously, neither Jesus or the New Testament is ONLY concerned with you becoming a Christian. Much of His teaching concerns a deeper life, a purer consecration, and a maturing spiritual growth.
I think this passage is a good guideline about this -
"However the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, The Lord knows those who are His, and Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from unrighteousness." ( 2 Timothy 2:19)
I like this verse very much.
1.) The Lord Jesus has not problem. He knows who belongs to Him. Even if you and I do not, still "The Lord know those who ARE HIS"
2.) The second point is a command to those who ARE His - " ... depart from unrighteousness". Those who name the name of the Lord, who confess that they are the Lord's should depart from unrighteousness.
This is really all we need. It does not say all who name the name of the Lord have automatically departed from unrighteous living, even though they have been justified. But they are exhorted to do so.
To continue in the commandments of Christ, is a lifetime of the works which Christ commanded us to do.
I have no disagreement. It does not change that the one having the Spirit of Christ is of Christ. Nor does it change that the Lord certainly knows who those human beings are.
And of course it doesn't change His desire and command that, daily, even moment by moment, we abide in Him that He would empower us to depart from unrighteous living - doing His commands.
As a young believer in Christ many of His commands are negative - "Don't do that," "Don't say that." "Don't go there."
Many of the indwelling commands of the living Spirit of Christ are to not do something we are accustomed to doing. Latter as we grow in the Lord His commands may be more specific then just "Don't".
This is much like a parent raising a child. All parents know that the first word a little child is likely to learn is the word "No". That is after "Mommy" or "Daddy".
01 Feb 12
Originally posted by jaywillChrist said ..I know Christians would like to believe that all Christians have the Holy Spirit in them, but there is just no Biblical support for that.[/i]
Yes there is.
[b]"Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him." (Rom. 8:9)
If you have the Spirit of Christ you are of Christ - a Christian.
If anyone do ...[text shortened]... is the word "No". That is after "Mommy" or "Daddy".[/b]
IF ye continue in my word, THEN are ye my disciples indeed;
Ask any 5 year old what IF, THEN statements, mean.
01 Feb 12
Originally posted by jaywillChrist said :I know Christians would like to believe that all Christians have the Holy Spirit in them, but there is just no Biblical support for that.[/i]
Yes there is.
[b]"Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him." (Rom. 8:9)
If you have the Spirit of Christ you are of Christ - a Christian.
If anyone do ...[text shortened]... is the word "No". That is after "Mommy" or "Daddy".[/b]
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Are you a friend of Christ ? Are the thousands who you say you know who have eternal life, are they friends of Christ ?
Notice the condition ... YOU MUST DO WHATEVER HE COMMANDS .. to be a friend of Christ.
Discipleship is DOING. Talking is worthless.
Rom 2:13 ..not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
01 Feb 12
Originally posted by jaywillYou quoted :I know Christians would like to believe that all Christians have the Holy Spirit in them, but there is just no Biblical support for that.[/i]
Yes there is.
[b]"Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him." (Rom. 8:9)
If you have the Spirit of Christ you are of Christ - a Christian.
If anyone do ...[text shortened]... is the word "No". That is after "Mommy" or "Daddy".[/b]
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
as proof that all Christians have the Holy Spirit?
Read from verse 1
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Do you, Jaywill know who walks after the flesh and who walks after the spirit?
I asked you this many times before but you gave me your typical nonsense roundabout answer thats meaningless.
Its a YES or NO answer.
The answer is NO .. YOU DO NOT KNOW WHO WALKS AFTER CHRIST.
01 Feb 12
8 edits
Originally posted by Rajk999
You quoted :
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
as proof that all Christians have the Holy Spirit?
Read from verse 1
[i]Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who ...[text shortened]... ess.
Its a YES or NO answer.
The answer is NO .. YOU DO NOT KNOW WHO WALKS AFTER CHRIST.
You quoted :
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
as proof that all Christians have the Holy Spirit?
Read from verse 1
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Do you, Jaywill know who walks after the flesh and who walks after the spirit?
I asked you this many times before but you gave me your typical nonsense roundabout answer thats meaningless.
Its a YES or NO answer.
The answer is NO .. YOU DO NOT KNOW WHO WALKS AFTER CHRIST.
[/i]
You're a good man Rajk999. You know exactly how to quote the passages which HELP me to bring out the proper truths of the New Testament.
Now learn a little bit here. The "no condemnation" of Romans 8:1 is self condemnation.
"Now there is NO CONDEMNATION to those who are in Christ Jesus ..." is refering to the condemnation of the previous chapter 7. This is SELF CONDEMNATION -
"Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death?
Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord !" (7:24,25a)
In chapter 7 and 8 Paul is addressing mostly the sense of FAILURE, SELF CONDEMNATION, SELF WRETCHEDNESS. It is that sense of self condemnation at KNOWING what is the will of God but failing to be able to perform that which I know.
To those in Christ Jesus, there is no self condemnation of feeling wretched and defeated BECAUSE " ... the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit." (v. 4)
In other words, the God seeker, or the religious person who has that sense of self condemnation because he cannot live up to what he knows, is FREED from that self condemnation through walking according to the indwelling Christ. Christ is the sphere and realm he lives in. And in Christ His life acts on a scientific bases. It is a LAW - "the law of the Spirit of life has freed me in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and and of death."
Now this is what YOU probably meant - "There is no condemnation before God, ie. full justification, full redemption, only to those who walk according to the spirit."
No, Paul is not saying the walk will justify us or the works will justify us. Paul is saying the WALK according to the indwelling Spirit of life will set us free from feeling SELF CONDEMNATION of "Oh wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death?"
Who ? The answer is [b]"Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord! ... there is NO CONDEMNATION to those who are in Christ Jesus ... Who WALK not according to the flesh but according to the [mingled and regenerated] human spirit."
01 Feb 12
Originally posted by jaywillSo we agree.
[quote] You quoted :
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
as proof that all Christians have the Holy Spirit?
Read from verse 1
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who ...[text shortened]... ding to the flesh but according to the [mingled and regenerated] human spirit."
WALK WITH CHRIST FIRST ..
- Obey His commandments
- Live the Christlike life
THEN, AND ONLY THEN ..
THE REWARD
- Eternal Life
- Holy Spirit Gifts
01 Feb 12
2 edits
Originally posted by Rajk999
So we agree.
WALK WITH CHRIST FIRST ..
- Obey His commandments
- Live the Christlike life
THEN, AND ONLY THEN ..
THE REWARD
- Eternal Life
- Holy Spirit Gifts
So we agree.
WALK WITH CHRIST FIRST ..
- Obey His commandments
- Live the Christlike life
THEN, AND ONLY THEN ..
THE REWARD
- Eternal Life
- Holy Spirit Gifts
I am reluctant to totally dismiss all of this. I have studied the Apostle Paul's usage of the phrase "eternal life". I recall seeing that for the most part eternal life, as used by Paul was something the believer is unto, with a view to, or moving forward towards as a result.
So there is that aspect of the enjoyment of the GIFT which one already has. The righteous shall have life and live by faith.
" ... But the righteous shall have life and live by faith" (Rom. 1:17 RcV)
1.) The righteous shall possess the GIFT of eternal life by faith.
2.) The righteous shall not only have the gift but also LIVE by the gift by faith.
But the righteous shall HAVE LIFE ... AND LIVE by faith.
So it is not wonder that the Apostle Paul says that the very same way the Christian RECEIVED Christ Jesus the Lord, the Christian should CONTINUE to WALK in Him -
"As therefore you have received the Christ, Jesus the Lord, walk in Him ..." (Colossian 2:5)
1.) Receive Christ the Lord
2.) As you have RECIEVED [past tense] so now WALK in Him.
Now I ask you a question Rajk999. How much time did the thief on the cross beside Jesus have to walk in Christ and obey His commandments when Jesus said to him:
"And he said, Jesus, remember me when You come into Your kingdom. And He said to him, Truly I say to you, Today you shall be with Me in Paradise." (Luke 23:42,42)
How much of the rest of "Today" did that dying and believing thief have to walk in Christ and obey His commandments ?