Society

Originally posted by josephw
If you think it is partisan and malignant to warn people that the rejection of God's provision for sin will result in eternal separation from life, then wake up.

I think it is partisan and malignant to "hope", as jaywill does, that the "end times" will happen before he dies, and that people who have different beliefs from him will burn in hell. It is textbook misanthropy, textbook fanaticism.

Originally posted by josephw
The world is a funeral march in case you haven't noticed. Death reigns, because of sin. Murder, rape and inconceivable abuse and misery is the tale that will be told at every level of human existence.

I disagree. I believe that the world is a better place now than it has ever been, and for more people. Murder, rape and misery have been part of the human condition all along. There is less of it now compared to previous centuries. I am not a gloomy pessimist who ignores the actual history of mankind like so many fundamentalist Christians are.

Originally posted by josephw
All sin is ultimately against God, and you have the audacity to think that your words can dispel God's warning against those who practice sin will go unpunished.

I don't accept that you know what "God's warning" is or even that there is one. There's no "audacity" involved. I am not "dispelling" anything; I simply don't accept the claims you make to me about Him or the claims you make to me about what will or will not go "unpunished". It seems you don't understand what I am saying.

Originally posted by FMF
I don't accept that you know what "God's warning" is or even that there is one. There's no "audacity" involved. I am not "dispelling" anything; I simply don't accept the claims you make to me about Him or the claims you make to me about what will or will not go "unpunished". It seems you don't understand what I am saying.

"It seems you don't understand what I am saying."

Have you ever asked yourself whether or not you understand what you're saying?

"I simply don't accept the claims you make to me about Him..."

They're not my claims. God Himself says He will punish sin. If you don't "accept" God's word, then by default you will answer for your own.

Or you can turn to God on His terms and be saved from your sins.

Or you can continue to think the world is a beautiful place that "religious" people are spoiling and causing all the wars. Especially the Christians with all their hate speech.

Originally posted by josephw
They're not my claims. God Himself says He will punish sin. If you don't "accept" God's word, then by default you will answer for your own.

Yes. They are your claims. You are claiming to know what 'God's instructions' are. You need to take responsibility for your own personal opinions just as I do for mine. I don't accept your opinions or your claims. I do not accept your claim to me about what "God Himself says".

Originally posted by josephw
Or you can continue to think the world is a beautiful place that "religious" people are spoiling and causing all the wars. Especially the Christians with all their hate speech.

I believe that there are many problems in the world. I do not believe that "religious people are spoiling and causing all the wars"; you're just making this up. I do not believe that it is "especially the Christians with all their hate speech" that are "spoiling and causing all the wars"; I haven't said this - you're just making it up.

Originally posted by josephw
Or you can turn to God on His terms and be saved from your sins.

This is just Christian cant. I am not a Christian anymore. Your rote recital of such strings of words doesn't mean anything. You should save it up for when you're talking to other Christians.

Originally posted by FMF
Yes. They are your claims. You are claiming to know what 'God's instructions' are. You need to take responsibility for your own personal opinions just as I do for mine. I don't accept your opinions or your claims. I do not accept your claim to me about what "God Himself says".

"I do not accept your claim to me about what "God Himself says"."

Nor should you. I don't expect you should.

Obviously our world views differ in respect to what we believe defines reality. I say I believe what the Bible says. But you offer no alternative, only your own opinion.

Let's consider one small but central claim the Bible makes. The resurrection of Jesus. Is it true? Is there enough evidence to convince the world that it's true?

My perception of reality says yes.

Originally posted by josephw
I say I believe what the Bible says. But you offer no alternative, only your own opinion.

Well all you offer is your opinion too. You say you believe what the Bible says. That is your opinion and your prerogative. There is no onus on me to offer you an "alternative".

Originally posted by josephw
Let's consider one small but central claim the Bible makes. The resurrection of Jesus. Is it true? Is there enough evidence to convince the world that it's true?

I don't think there is. As a reference point, I don't think "God" spoke to Mohammed either. So I will leave it to you to extrapolate what you want from your folk stories and superstitions. When these speculations only apply to you yourself, I am not much interested in commenting as I have no desire whatsoever to divest anyone of their personal beliefs. But you need to know that when there are Christians who say they "hope" that the 'end is nigh' and that people who have different beliefs from them will be "punished" with some kind of "eternal torment", then they are going to get described as partisan and malignant, and terms like misanthropy and fanaticism are of course going to get used.

Originally posted by FMF
Well all you offer is your opinion too. You say you believe what the Bible says. That is your opinion and your prerogative. There is no onus on me to offer you an "alternative".

I wouldn't call it "my opinion", it's what I believe. It's my opinion that blue is nicer than green. But it's not my opinion that God has spoken. It's your opinion that that is my opinion.

If God has spoken, then all He says will come to pass. Not one jot or tittle will pass away, right?

So far His Word hasn't failed. If you can't see that, then you're blind. Probably due to too much "religious" training, which is a sure way to kill the spirit.

Originally posted by josephw
I wouldn't call it "my opinion", it's what I believe.

It is clearly your opinion that what you believe is true. I just don't accept your opinion in this matter anymore than you accept mine. Then again, I am not superimposing theories about what will and will not go "unpunished" onto you. Unlike you, I am not claiming to know what 'God's instructions' are.

Originally posted by josephw
So far His Word hasn't failed. If you can't see that, then you're blind.

Calling me "blind" has no mileage in it as 'arguments' go.

Originally posted by josephw
If God has spoken, then all He says will come to pass. Not one jot or tittle will pass away, right?

It seems you haven't understood anything I have been saying.

Originally posted by FMF
It is clearly your opinion that what you believe is true. I just don't accept your opinion in this matter anymore than you accept mine. Then again, I am not superimposing theories about what will and will not go "unpunished" onto you. Unlike you, I am not claiming to know what 'God's instructions' are.

If you want to know, read the Holy Bible.
HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord!