Somebody help me...

Originally posted by FMF
But you claim to be a Christian too, don't you?

People make all kinds of claims! I'll love you forever, I will pay you back
next payday, the check is in the mail, you can give me your money and
I'll double it, trust me!

Honestly, it is the truth that matters, in the case of Christians, it is only
those that belong to the Lord that truly are in fact Christians in my
opinion. You can disagree, up to you! God gives His Spirit to His own, the
term can be used because you were born in America, or white, or your
partents were, none of which matters one wit! It is between you and
God, it isn't even important what I think, if you belong to God in Christ,
you belong to God in Christ. You do not need my blessing.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
According to my theology the only way you can lose anything, not just
your salvation is to have it at least once.
Kelly

Does that mean you accept my characterization of your theology in my previous post or not? You sound to me like you are trying to be vague about it.

Originally posted by KellyJay
People make all kinds of claims! I'll love you forever, I will pay you back
next payday, the check is in the mail, you can give me your money and
I'll double it, trust me!

Honestly, it is the truth that matters, in the case of Christians, it is only
those that belong to the Lord that truly are in fact Christians in my
opinion. You can disagree, up to ...[text shortened]... f you belong to God in Christ,
you belong to God in Christ. You do not need my blessing.
Kelly

I am aware "People make all kinds of claims". Saying this is simply sidestepping the question I have put to you. Do you claim to be a Christian? Yes or no? Do you claim to "belong to God in Christ", yes or no?

Originally posted by FMF
I am aware "People make all kinds of claims". Saying this is simply sidestepping the question I have put to you. Do you claim to be a Christian? Yes or no? Do you claim to "belong to God in Christ", yes or no?

Yes, yes
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Yes, yes
Kelly

Well twenty years ago I also claimed to be a Christian and I also claimed to "belong to God in Christ" just as you are claiming about yourself now.

Originally posted by FMF
Well twenty years ago I also claimed to be a Christian and I also claimed to "belong to God in Christ" just as you are claiming about yourself now.

You have no frigging idea about my walk with God, if you do please tell
me about it!
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
"KJ - Listen, I've done pages with him on the point that bothers me about his
story. It didn't have anything to do with that doctrine, it had everything to do with how he describes it. Had he said, I knew the Lord but walked away, okay, I agree change of heart. Had he said, I walked as a Christian for years, but realized it was false than that would be ok ...[text shortened]... g faith, faith and a relationship with God related they are, but
are not the same thing.
Kelly

I know what you are saying, or trying to say; what I'm saying is that your claims about FMF's spiritual condition in the past and indeed now are not supported by your theology. You need to demonstrate how your theology supports your position.

So if FMF is not a Christian who has lost his salvation despite claiming to be Christian who has turned away from God. Can you explain how the doctrine you believe in of a Christian losing ones salvation, actually works in real life?

Are you saying that it is impossible to turn away from God so in fact a Christian cannot lose their salvation them-self, and that in fact the salvation can only be lost by God taking it away for some reason?

Originally posted by divegeester
I know what you are saying, or trying to say; what I'm saying is that your claims about FMF's spiritual condition in the past and indeed now are not supported by your theology. You need to demonstrate how your theology supports your position.

So if FMF is not a Christian who has lost his salvation despite claiming to be Christian who has turned away f ...[text shortened]... hem-self, and that in fact the salvation can only be lost by God taking it away for some reason?

I've never said it was impossible to lose one's salvation I don't believe
that is scriptural. There are so many warnings about it in scripture it is
not funny! I've given examples how it could happen, and I really don't
want to have to do it again. If you have been keeping up with this
conversation you'd seen some. The last I think is no more than one page
back if that.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
According to my theology the only way you can lose anything, not just
your salvation is to have it at least once.
Kelly

So are you saying that a Christian who has lost their salvation will still exhibit evidences of a faith in Christ I.e. Not what FMF is doing?

Originally posted by KellyJay
I've never said it was impossible to lose one's salvation I don't believe
that is scriptural. There are so many warnings about it in scripture it is
not funny! I've given examples how it could happen, and I really don't
want to have to do it again. If you have been keeping up with this
conversation you'd seen some. The last I think is no more than one page
back if that.
Kelly

I'm trying to understand how your theology (which should based on scripture, yes?) supports your firm claim that FMF is not a Christian who has lost his salvation. All you are providing is page after page of your unsupported opinion.

Originally posted by KellyJay
You have no frigging idea about my walk with God, if you do please tell
me about it!

I am not asking you to prove you are a Christian. I am accepting, at you word, that you claim to be a Christian.

Originally posted by divegeester
I'm trying to understand how your theology (which should based on scripture, yes?) supports your firm claim that FMF is not a Christian who has lost his salvation. All you are providing is page after page of your unsupported opinion.

It is very simple, you need to have something before you lose it! He has
not once said he had a relationship with God through Jesus Christ, then
rejected that as not true. Since that is what a Christian is, how can he
claim to have been one?

As I said many will make claims, we are warned even that some among
us are really not part of God's body, they are there for other reasons.

I've given my reasons for my opinion, so they are supported, you may
not agree with them, such is life.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
[FMF] has not once said he had a relationship with God through Jesus Christ...

I have said repeatedly that I believed that I had a relationship with God through Jesus Christ. I have said so repeatedly.

Originally posted by KellyJay
It is very simple, you need to have something before you lose it! He has
not once said he had a relationship with God through Jesus Christ, then
rejected that as not true. Since that is what a Christian is, how can he
claim to have been one?

As I said many will make claims, we are warned even that some among
us are really not part of God's body, they ...[text shortened]... easons for my opinion, so they are supported, you may
not agree with them, such is life.
Kelly

Yes you are making a firm claim that FMF was never a Christian; I think we all see that. But you are not providing ANY scripturally based theological argument to support this you are just spouting personal opinion which with respect is worthless unless you can back it up.

If we make the assumption that FMF was in fact never a Christian (completely unsupported by you at the moment) despite his claims that he was a believer. Then how do you differentiate between a long time person claiming to be a Christian and then claiming not to be e.g. FMF in this scenario and a person who has lost their salvation?

Originally posted by divegeester
Yes you are making a firm claim the FMF was never a Christian, I think we all see that. But you are not providing ANY scriptuarally based thological argument to support this you are just spouting personal opinion which with respect is worthless unless you can back it up.

If we make the assumption that FMF was in fact never a Christian (completely unsu ...[text shortened]... and then claiming not to be e.g. FMF in this scenario and a person who has lost thier salvation?

Kelly position seems to amount to nothing more than the 'No True Scotsman' argument, ie FMF wasn't a 'Real Christian'.