Somebody help me...

Originally posted by FMF
Well I am not a Christian any more, if that's what you are getting at. But I have told you this many times before.

Yes, heard you and I agree you have denounced you are a Christian.
Kelly

Originally posted by FMF
What I believe now does not alter the fact that I believed I had Christ in my life when I was Christian. You believing you have Christ in your life is what makes you a Christian. The same belief made me a Christian. The fact that I am an ex-Christian now cannot alter the fact that I was a Christian for almost thirty years.

If I believe I was able to fly, would that mean I could? No, reality would
smack me down hard if I tried to put that into practice. Reality for you
back in your Christian days either did, or did not have Christ in your
life. You now claim that Jesus could not be in anyone's life, that would also
include you! So all the times you were claiming to be a Christian, all of
those years, all of the fellowship, all of the meetings, you did not have
Jesus in your life according to you now. You had the belief in Christ, but
not Christ according to you. Since a Christian has Christ in their lives and
you did not, what does that make you?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Since a Christian has Christ in their lives and you did not, what does that make you?

No, a Christian does not have Christ in their lives. They only believe that they do. Either that, or you, and anyone else claiming to be Christian, are not actually Christian, and no True Christians exist.

I think the reason this disagreement has lasted so long is you refuse to see it from the other persons point of view.

There are two reasonable possibilities:
1. God exists, Christ is in your life, was formerly in FMFs life, but he no longer believes that was the case.
2. God does not exist, and Christ was never in either of your lives, but you continue to believe that he is.
But you seem to reject both and instead claim that if FMF no longer believes Christ is in his life then Christ necessarily was never in his life. It seems that claim needs more justification than you have given.

Originally posted by KellyJay
This is the part I've been asking you about, you deny now it cannot be real
for me or anyone else, yet you claim you were not faking. Okay, you were
not faking, but it wasn't real according to you, so you were doing what?
Kelly

When I was a Christian I wasn't faking it in the same way that you [or so I sincerely believe] are not faking it now.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Yes, heard you and I agree you have denounced you are a Christian.

Try this again in Standard English, if there is such a thing. 😀

Originally posted by KellyJay
So all the times you were claiming to be a Christian, all of those years, all of the fellowship, all of the meetings, you did not have Jesus in your life according to you now.

What I believe about it now does not alter the fact that I believed it then. I still don't get why you aren't saying that I was right then and wrong now.

Originally posted by FMF
What I believe about it now does not alter the fact that I believed it then. I still don't get why you aren't saying that I was right then and wrong now.

You have made the connection between what I believe about Jesus Christ
and others is no different than what you used to believe, and you declare
that what you had wasn't real. You have said if I'm not mistaken I'd have
to go back and verify that we would be better off to flip and be like you.

Both of those statements promote that although we honestly believe in
Jesus, He isn't a reality worthy of faith. So as you have made these
statements, it still flies over your head that if Christ is very real, you have
mistakenly view of reality for what it really is. You've denied, the reality of
Christ in your life by doing so for everyone to see, countless times you
have declared you are an ex-Christian.

So all the while that you were a Christian, it wasn't real, it is was false for
you as you imply it is false for us. So what you were doing all those years
clinging to something you now claim is false! If it wasn't reality you were
putting you hope in it was something fake, it had to be since you now
declare it so. You are after all, according to you, someone who rejects Christ
now.
Kelly

Originally posted by FMF
When I was a Christian I wasn't faking it in the same way that you [or so I sincerely believe] are not faking it now.

When you were a Christian, what you were putting your faith into wasn't
realc according to you now. So for years, it wasn't real, real is what you
have now, again, according to you.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Pages upon pages of him and I discussing this doesn't clear it up to you
nothing will that I say.
Kelly

Don't you think the fact that you have had to spend pages and pages discussing this very simple point is indicative that you are not making yourself clear?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Yes
KJ

divegeester:
Don't you think that some Christians who claim to be ex Christians could be those who have fallen away?

KJ:
Yes

What is the difference between one of those ex-Christians who you accept have fallen away, and FMF who claims to be an ex-Christian and fallen away?

Originally posted by divegeester
divegeester:
Don't you think that some Christians who claim to be ex Christians could be those who have fallen away?

KJ:
Yes

What is the difference between one of those ex-Christians who you accept have fallen away, and FMF who claims to be an ex-Christian and fallen away?

To be able to fall away from something you must actually be there first.
That is the bottom line in my debate, I've said it over and over.

Now, does he claim he believed he had a relationship with Jesus Christ?
He says he lost his faith!
If he said he lost Jesus, then I'd say he fell away from Jesus, but that is
not what he is doing!

To be enlighten and reject is possible the scripture tells us that, those are
the ones that fell away. Others who mouth the words, but never know
Jesus cannot claim they fall away from someone they never really knew.
Kelly

Originally posted by divegeester
Don't you think the fact that you have had to spend pages and pages discussing this very simple point is indicative that you are not making yourself clear?

I think it is indicative that you don't know the difference between knowing
the lord, and just making a claim about it.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
To be able to fall away from something you must actually be there first.
That is the bottom line in my debate, I've said it over and over.

Now, does he claim he believed he had a relationship with Jesus Christ?
He says he lost his faith!
If he said he lost Jesus, then I'd say he fell away from Jesus, but that is
not what he is doing!

To be enlight ...[text shortened]... s, but never know
Jesus cannot claim they fall away from someone they never really knew.
Kelly

Here's my bottom line; I think you are a stubborn, judgemental pumped-up religionist who's painted himself into a corner.

Originally posted by divegeester
Here's my bottom line; I think you are a stubborn, judgemental pumped-up religionist who's painted himself into a corner.

And people say that I am rude and disrespectful? You guys getting like me ! 🙂

Originally posted by FMF
This is an assertion steeped in the "idealogical dogma" we have been discussing.

Originally posted by josephw
What is so odd is how you can claim to believe in the existence of God, yet are apparently void of any knowledge of God, but still insist that no one else does either. Irrational.

"This is an assertion steeped in the "idealogical dogma" we have been discussing."


Your answer is plainly avoidance of the "assertion" I made. Why do you do that post after post? Why are you trying so hard to avoid making a clear statement in reply to a clear "assertion"?

The "assertion" is that you have said that you believe there is a God. The question posed is how do you know that? If you have knowledge of the existence of God, then please say what it is and how you know it.

Quit avoiding the "assertion" if you please, and demonstrate some intellectual integrity.