Somebody help me...

Originally posted by FMF
Blind to what? I am no longer a Christian, so that's why I don't think what you believe is "true". There is nothing "blind" about this. And I have been crystal clear about it since the get go.

You don't see the difference, I guess we can just part ways disagreeing.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
You don't see the difference, I guess we can just part ways disagreeing.
Kelly

What "difference"? You are a still Christian and I am not. I see the difference clearly. What "difference" that I supposedly "don't see" are you on about?

Originally posted by FMF
What "difference"? You are a still Christian and I am not. I see the difference clearly. What "difference" that I supposedly "don't see" are you on about?

Really, page upon page on what that means, and you still don't get it?
No, I've written it out countless times. We disagree, you don't see how
it all plays out, I am guessing you never will till God shows you.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Really, page upon page on what that means, and you still don't get it?
No, I've written it out countless times. We disagree, you don't see how
it all plays out, I am guessing you never will till God shows you.

You are a still Christian and I am not. I see the difference clearly. What appears to rankle with you is that I understand what you believe, I understand your certainty, and I understand your sincerity ~ and do so from personal experience. Thus, your parting shot of how I "still don't get it" when I do, and have demonstrated that I do for page after page of this discussion.

Originally posted by FMF
You are a still Christian and I am not. I see the difference clearly. What appears to rankle with you is that I understand what you believe, I understand your certainty, and I understand your sincerity ~ and do so from personal experience. Thus, your parting shot of how I "still don't get it" when I do, and have demonstrated that I do for page after page of this discussion.

Since you've not once been able to tell me my point back to me, I don't
think you get it. You repeating your point of view is all you have ever
done, you have not taken the time to understand mine.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Since you've not once been able to tell me my point back to me...

Tell you what? Which point? You have made several points.

Originally posted by FMF
Tell you what? Which point? You have made several points.

I've made several, I've only stessed one!
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I've made several, I've only stessed one!
Kelly

Is it the one about how you reckon I am a liar? You stressed that "point" quite a lot. Another one was how me being an ex-Christian somehow "belittled" the dead relatives of Christians. You stressed that for a while too. Which point is it you want me 'to tell you back to you'?

Originally posted by FMF
Is it the one about how you reckon I am a liar? You stressed that "point" quite a lot. Another one was how me being an ex-Christian somehow "belittled" the dead relatives of Christians. You stressed that for a while too. Which point is it you want me 'to tell you back to you'?

Dealing with reality past, present, furture.
Does reality change because our opinions do?
If reality does not change because our opinions do.
Does this mean that even if we thought X was true in our past, if we
come to acknowledge it wasn't. Does that means all the time we based
our life upon X it was based upon something not real?

So if you now acknowledge X as not real, it could have never have been
real even in your past no matter your beliefs or faith in it at the time.

If there are those that really have X in their lives, are you two equal
at all, since you now know what you had wasn't real at any time, you
only believed in it once?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Dealing with reality past, present, furture.
Does reality change because our opinions do?
If reality does not change because our opinions do.
Does this mean that even if we thought X was true in our past, if we
come to acknowledge it wasn't. Does that means all the time we based
our life upon X it was based upon something not real?

So if you now ack ...[text shortened]... , since you now know what you had wasn't real at any time, you
only believed in it once?
Kelly

Look, how many times do I have to say it? I accept that you sincerely believe that "having Jesus in your life" is a "reality". I accept that that is what you believe. I accept that you are sincere. What more can I say to demonstrate that I understand what it is you believe? On page 37 you yourself said "The beliefs you have about anything does not affect the reality of that being real or not." If this applies to anyone or everyone in the world, if it applies to me, or to my neighbour or yours, or to me twenty years ago, then it also applies to you.

Originally posted by FMF
Look, how many times do I have to say it? I accept that you sincerely believe that "having Jesus in your life" is a "reality". I accept that that is what you believe. I accept that you are sincere. What more can I say to demonstrate that I understand what it is you believe? On page 37 you yourself said [b]"The beliefs you have about anything does not affect the ...[text shortened]... lies to me, or to my neighbour or yours, or to me twenty years ago, then it also applies to you.

Look, don't bother bringing this up with me again! You have no clue
what I'm talking about, and as soon as you see it, you just spout off your
points again!
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Look, don't bother bringing this up with me again! You have no clue
what I'm talking about, and as soon as you see it, you just spout off your
points again!
Kelly

On page 37 you yourself said "The beliefs you have about anything does not affect the reality of that being real or not." Do you retract this assertion was being true if it means that it also applies to you?

Originally posted by FMF
On page 37 you yourself said "The beliefs you have about anything does not affect the reality of that being real or not." Do you retract this assertion was being true if it means that it also applies to you?

You have no clue about my complaint, you don't even care! All you
are interested in doing is justifying yourself.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
If there are those that really have X in their lives, are you two equal at all, since you now know what you had wasn't real at any time, you only believed in it once?

Twenty years ago when I believed ~ similar to how you do now ~ that Jesus was a "reality" in my life, the me-twenty-years-in-the-future did not yet exist and therefore had no way of affecting what I perceived to be "reality" at that time.

The fact that I am an ex-Christian now [and perceive "reality" as an ex-Christian] does not mean that me-now-twenty-years-later can somehow reach back in time and alter what the beliefs of the me-twenty-years-ago were at that time in the past.

Originally posted by FMF
Twenty years ago when I believed ~ similar to how you do now ~ that Jesus was a "reality" in my life, the me-twenty-years-in-the-future did not yet exist and therefore had no way of affecting what I perceived to be "reality" at that time.

The fact that I am an ex-Christian now [and perceive "reality" as an ex-Christian] does not mean that me-now-twenty-years ...[text shortened]... ack in time and alter what the beliefs of the me-twenty-years-ago were at that time in the past.

I rest my case! Case closed, this discussion if it continues will do so
without me.
Kelly