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03 Nov 05
4 edits
Originally posted by sasquatch672Okay. Now. I obviously don't understand the nature of this speaking in tongues. Do you decide what comes out of your mouth? To me, I would think that this "SIT" would occur during a period of heightened consciousness. Almost a trance-like state. But that's not what you describe. You describe a period where you're fully conscious and self-aware.
See, you're someone I can communicate with. You speak intelligently and well and did not once tell me I was going to hell. I don't know why bf has such a problem with this.
Okay, now to your post. There are just a few things I'd like to address, because I think we've got common ground on most of it.
[b]SIT is giving of thanks perfectly, and ...[text shortened]... I won't get your answer tonight, but I'll look for it tomorrow. Have a good night my friend.
It is definately not a "trance". It is difficult to explain. I move my mouth, my tongue and my lips. I "push out" words, but I don't know what they will be, nor do I understand what they mean. It was difficult at first. But now it is flows easily. I would suggest that if you were going to try it on your own, first pray and ask God to help you understand what it is. Read 1Corint. 12, 13, and 14. While I SIT, I can think of something else if I choose. Let's say I am home, and I have an "urge" to pray for someone. Perhaps a name pops in my head, like an old friend who I haven't seen in a long time. The Spirit of God works in such a way that He puts a "thought" or "urge" in the mind. So, what I do is pray for this person in the spirit(aka, SIT) and with my mind, I picture the person healed, blessed, whatever the need may be. Sometimes, I don't know the need, so I just SIT.
Why is "SIT" better than communicating in your native language?
It's not. That is, if you know the need. Lets say you want to pray for America. Do you know the specific needs of this country? Many of us know the obvious, but not the "hidden" things. Like where satan is "attacking". There are "spiritual" things going on which we cannot be aware of. This is one good purpose to SIT.
Do you willfully make the syllables? How is this different from babbling?
Good question. I try not to listen to what I say. Babblig is not too hard to spot. There is some posted on this thread. Booboo googoo boopooo.
When I listen to some one genuine SIT, even though I don't know what they say, it sounds like a language.
And then, if you do it in front of another person, the same person who does it has to interpret it. How do you interpret it?
This is not the intent. It is not for two people. And you are now talking two different things. SIT is for private prayer use only.Period. There is no interpretation.
Now, SIT with interpretation and prophecy are for a church setting only. This is designed to comfort, bless, and exhort the body of believers.
Let me give you an example of previous interpretations and/or prophecy. The Pastor calls on me to SIT and interpret....I'll stand ( but don't have to) I will SIT for let's say 30 seconds then immediately the interpretation flows out. Some thing like "I am the Lord your God. I have called you to a high and mighty calling. Know for a truth that I am faithful and true. I have loved you since before the foundations of the earth....etc." It is ALWAYS comfort, exhortation or edification. If it is condemning in any way...it is not from God.
It's apparent to me that I have a fundamental misunderstanding of what this business is. So what you're saying is that someone "SIT"ing is not receiving the Word of God. They're actually talking to Him.
The holy spirit "in you" is doing the talking. It "bypasses" the mind. This is a field as I posted earlier where there is all kinds of misunderstanding, abuse, wrong teaching, where people are afraid to study it. This is exactly what the enemy wants. Satan is the author of fear and confusion. And he has done a great job to keep Christians in the dark. SIT is only one manefestation of the spirit. There are 8 more that he would rather we stay ignorant of.
Notice these verses...
Luke 24:49
49 "Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high."
(NKJ)
Acts 1:8
8 "But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you;and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in....
(NKJ)
1 Cor 4:20
20 For the kingdom of God is not in word but in power.
(NKJ)
Eph 3:20
20 Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us ,...
(NKJ)
Christians today desperately need this "power" from on high if we are to "stand against the wiles of satan"...This is what he does not want us to know. Most Christians I see today are weak, feeble and powerless. Yes they may be saved and heavenbound, but they are no threat to satan.
This was not God's plan for Christians.
I'm sorry if my earlier posts, the one you referred to in particular, insulted you or demeaned you.
No offense taken. I am always happy and even honored to answer a question for someone who is sincere which you seem to be.
Sorry if this went on so long, I tend to get carried away at times.
For more details on SIT I recommend this site....
http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=579
sorry it's all bold...don't know why..
03 Nov 05
1 edit
Originally posted by checkbaiter[/b]This is an interesting discussion. Mind if I add some “side notes?”
[b] Okay. Now. I obviously don't understand the nature of this speaking in tongues. Do you decide what comes out of your mouth? To me, I would think that this "SIT" would occur during a period of heightened consciousness. Almost a trance-like state. But that's not what you describe. You describe a period where you're fully conscious and self-a ...[text shortened]... ition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=579
sorry it's all bold...don't know why..
…even though I don't know what they say, it sounds like a language.
I read a study on glossalalia some years back (library book, so I can’t give the reference offhand), in which they stated that although it does sound like a language (as opposed to plain babbling), with articulated cadences, “punctuational” pauses, etc., in the end it lacks the basic “grammar” of a formal language.
SIT is for private prayer use only. Period. There is no interpretation.
The same study offered taped SIT to different people who claimed to be able to interpret. The interpretations invariably turned out to be different. I don’t know how one would test an interpretation given in a liturgical context; it would seem to be up to the one to whom the interpretation is given to assign meaning/relevance for their own life.
The holy spirit "in you" is doing the talking. It "bypasses" the mind.
Whether or not it is the holy spirit “talking” would seem to be an understanding based on the relevant Biblical passages; i.e., the Biblical author(s) concluded that it was an activity initiated by the holy spirit. As I believe that glossalalia is not confined to Christianity, there are likely to be other possible understandings. I have known people who “use” SIT basically as centering exercise prior to prayer/meditation (rather like, say, mantra), without ascribing it any greater function.
Also, it might be more accurate to say (using a popular analogy) that the vocalization originates in/from the right brain and essentially bypasses the formal linguistic structures of the left brain (again, I mean this analogously, as I don’t think it accurately describes the neurological underpinnings of language).
Given that, one might also say that SIT is simply the “right brain” singing (some people sing glossalalia) freely with little interference (or “translation&rdquo😉 by the “left brain”—hence the lack of formal grammatical structure. This could take place in a religious context or not. Another analogy might be this: Doing tai chi form (since I do tai chi) in the “formal” manner—the prescribed sequence of steps, kicks, blocks, etc.—and then breaking into a more free-form movement that still incorporates the general movement-style, but without the formal “grammar.” You don’t suddenly flop on the ground; the movements have a kind of “deliberateness” to them (maybe like riding a bicycle); it is as if you are “watching” yourself do the tai chi, and even noticing the “propriety” of the movements, without any pre-thought of “now I will do a single-whip.” I have “done” glossalalia exactly like that, without assigning it any religious significance. Perhaps it could be thought of as a kind of meditation somewhat like the Zen master who said that the best meditation was simply to stand and laugh out loud for 15 minutes…
EDIT: To keep everything from coming out bold, you can simply type in the bracket-backslash-b-bracket thingy at the very beginning of your post (which I just did to mine).
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03 Nov 05
Originally posted by sasquatch672I can tell by your post that you didn't look at the web address I suggested.
Okay, now you mentioned that you can pray in your native language if you know the needs of whomever you're praying for. But if you don't know the needs that you should "pray in the spirit" as you said. But what about Matthew 6? (I know, I'm a big fan of Matthew 6). Christ said you don't need to ask God for things, because He knows man's needs ...[text shortened]... st say the Lord's Prayer, as we're instructed, and let God take care of where they prayers go?
But in any event, let's look at Matt. 6.
Matt 6:7-9
7 "And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.
8 "Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him.
9 "In this manner, therefore, pray: our Father in heaven, hallowed be Your name.
(NKJ)
Notice it says do not use vain repetitons. The Lords prayer would be repetitious. I believe He was giving an example of prayer. Not neccessarily quote His words. And the fact it says He already knows your needs, so why bother praying at all? The reason is He wants a relationship, not quoting words already made up. We are to pray in our own words, as if talking to a friend. Prayer should be intimate, between you and God.
Ps 62:8
8 Trust in Him at all times, you people; pour out your heart before Him; God is a refuge for us. Selah
(NKJ)
Pour out your heart before Him. That is what He wants.
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03 Nov 05
Originally posted by vistesdThis is an interesting discussion. Mind if I add some “side notes?”
This is an interesting discussion. Mind if I add some “side notes?”
…even though I don't know what they say, it sounds like a language.
I read a study on glossalalia some years back (library book, so I can’t give the reference offhand), in which they stated that although it does sound like a language (as opposed to plain babbling), with ar ...[text shortened]... racket-backslash-b-bracket thingy at the very beginning of your post (which I just did to mine).[/b]
Not at all, you are always welcome.
I am not sure about the book you mention, but SIT is a language. I have heard of people who were understood by another who spoke the language as their native language. But this is not right according to the bible. It is not for others to hear. It is only for private prayer use, as I mentioned.
The interpretation is to be done by the same person, so if another tried to interpret it would be a prophecy not an interpretation. Iterpretation and prophecy are basically the same thing.
Without being disrespectful, I have to say that the study you mention is suspect in my mind. I say this because only a Christian can SIT, according to the bible. Anything else I would have to believe is not genuine.
I did not start this thread, but I kind of wish I could retract my comments on SIT, only because it is such a contrversial topic and I believe not too many have a good understanding of it. It is very difficult to try and explain on a forum. Much goes unsaid, it is an extensive field of study. I took a class, 35 years ago that took 3 weeks to cover all the material. It was a class that covered bible basics, keys to understanding the bible, etc. At the end, the class was very much assured of the integrity of scripture based on the teaching presented, and so full of believing faith, that we were led to SIT at the end.
A second class led un into interpretation and prophecy. If one was to do a close study of the book of Acts, they would see that the early church, after they were "born-again/saved" they spoke in tongues. Every one. This is rare today. There does not seem to be the intense teaching.
Now I know this makes me sound like I have a "swelled head" and I apologize if it does, but I have learned what I have learned, and I have seen what I have seen. I do not apologize for that, but I would not trade it for anything. I hope I am making some kind of sense...Peace
03 Nov 05
Originally posted by checkbaiterNow I know this makes me sound like I have a "swelled head" and I apologize if it does, but I have learned what I have learned, and I have seen what I have seen. I do not apologize for that, but I would not trade it for anything. I hope I am making some kind of sense...Peace
[b]This is an interesting discussion. Mind if I add some “side notes?”
Not at all, you are always welcome.
I am not sure about the book you mention, but SIT is a language. I have heard of people who were understood by another who spoke the language as their native language. But this is not right according to the bible. It is not for others to he ...[text shortened]... e for that, but I would not trade it for anything. I hope I am making some kind of sense...Peace[/b]
Not to me! 🙂 Yeah, some of these things are difficult to talk about on here, both because of their complexity, and because as soon as you write down the words, you're thinking "Well, that isn't quite it"; I hesitated myself. With regard to the study: I didn't think that it validated or invalidated SIT; and that did not seem to be its purpose. There are obviously different understandings of it; yours is one that is different from others I have heard from people who "do" SIT.
The only response I have to the general "I have seen what I have seen" point is that Buddhists, Hindus, etc., say exactly the same thing. (For example, I have read that some of the Native American "spirit chants" are essentially glossalalic; though I don't think they treat that as the Great Spirit speaking (singing) through them, but as a valid expression in itself. I don't "dis" them any more than I dis you.)
I have my own (ongoing) understanding of "things spiritual." I do not think that your particular Christian expression of the truth is the only acceptable--or even proper--expression, and that is always where things always seem to get dicey. To say: "This is a right way" is not the same as to say "this is the only right way."
An aside, since I have the opportunity here to do it--often people say of another's way of religious expression: "Is that necessary?" I'm sure that people say it about SIT. Others say it about, say, rosary. Or high-church liturgy as opposed to low-church liturgy. My answer is generally: "No. But then, I like filet mignon, even though I realize that I could survive on rice and beans!"
03 Nov 05
Originally posted by sasquatch672If one does not live the way JESUS taught the believers to live. You cannot communicate with GOD in the that GOD, in the way that GOD wants you to. If you believe THE WORD OF GOD, it is not hard to communicate with HIM. Yes to an non-believer that is nonsense.
No it couldn't, you're completely changing the subject. You were asked about clear communications from God and you give a completely nonsensical answer.
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04 Nov 05
Originally posted by vistesdLOL ..I love rice and beans! I know what you are saying and as I have told you before, I have the highest regard for you....
[b]Now I know this makes me sound like I have a "swelled head" and I apologize if it does, but I have learned what I have learned, and I have seen what I have seen. I do not apologize for that, but I would not trade it for anything. I hope I am making some kind of sense...Peace
Not to me! 🙂 Yeah, some of these things are difficult to talk about on ...[text shortened]... hen, I like filet mignon, even though I realize that I could survive on rice and beans!"[/b]
04 Nov 05
Originally posted by checkbaiterLOL--confession: I like rice and beans too! That aside was not directed at you; I'd just been thinking of it in terms of posts on a couple of threads recently.
LOL ..I love rice and beans! I know what you are saying and as I have told you before, I have the highest regard for you....
The regard is mutual...
04 Nov 05
Originally posted by vistesdFrom the greatest rap song of all time: "Give me a sista can't resist her. Red beans and rice did miss her." "Baby's Got Back" Sir Mix-A-Lot
LOL--confession: I like rice and beans too! That aside was not directed at you; I'd just been thinking of it in terms of posts on a couple of threads recently.
The regard is mutual...
04 Nov 05
1 edit
Originally posted by vistesdOne of the big things about speaking in tongues is that it can
[b]Now I know this makes me sound like I have a "swelled head" and I apologize if it does, but I have learned what I have learned, and I have seen what I have seen. I do not apologize for that, but I would not trade it for anything. I hope I am making some kind of sense...Peace
Not to me! 🙂 Yeah, some of these things are difficult to talk about on ...[text shortened]... hen, I like filet mignon, even though I realize that I could survive on rice and beans!"[/b]
be faked.
I'll relate one account that occurred with me.
I ended up in a Bible study with several people I did not know
one night. I knew only one other person in the group of about
12, all of different ages.
At the end of the Bible study we formed a circle to pray.
As I was under my breath praying I started praying in the Spirit,
within me I cannot describe the feeling, but it was like out of
my belly flowed something quite wonderful and as it left my
mouth I was praying quite loud in tongues. I was completely
enjoying the experience and it stopped. I sort of realized at
that point that I was with a group of people I didn't know and
what just happened. Another in the group started speaking
and gave us the interpretation of what was said.
I'm sure some can and will pick apart what I had just said, I
basically dislike sharing things that you simply just have to take
my word on for events like this I believed that to have been a
real manifestation of God working through people. It does
happen today, with people who are yielding to God and people
who are making it up to appear to be something they are not.
I would also point out that Spiritual gifts are just that, no one
should get caught up in the gifts, only the giver of them is really
important.
Kelly