30 Sep 12
Originally posted by RJHindsWhat I find interesting is that sumydid is saying that people not believing him or not accepting the significance he himself claims for his dreams BOTH (i) "makes no difference" to him, AND (ii) is "frustrating" to him. I am curious about this contradiction.
FMF is a nosey guy and he is trying to get you to tell him what the dream was about that made it seem incredible to you and unbelievable to others. So just ignore him, if you do not wish to relive the details again.
30 Sep 12
Originally posted by RJHindsActually I am not interested at all in the content of sumydid's dreams. This is why I have pointedly not asked him to tell me what the dream was about.
FMF is a nosey guy and he is trying to get you to tell him what the dream was about that made it seem incredible to you and unbelievable to others.
30 Sep 12
What's with the 'assumption' made in the title of this OP thread anyway?
The assumption is that dreams have 'both' a spiritual and a psychological significance.
Sorry, not, but I disagree with the original assumption on the part of spiritual significance.
Psychologically, anybody with any reading knows that the brain uses dreaming to order the days events, choose what to remember as significant or not, and what to forget long term or put into memory - be that long term or short term.
Spiritual significance has never been addressed by anybody who is of recognition in the psychological world, those of significance that is.
Hence, the OP title should be in the science forum, asking about the psychological relevance of dreams only.
-m.
30 Sep 12
Originally posted by mikelomThe dreams presented in the Holy Bible seem to me to have more than just a psychological significance. They seem to be prophetic as well.
What's with the 'assumption' made in the title of this OP thread anyway?
The assumption is that dreams have 'both' a spiritual and a psychological significance.
Sorry, not, but I disagree with the original assumption on the part of spiritual significance.
Psychologically, anybody with any reading knows that the brain uses dreaming to order the days ...[text shortened]... ld be in the science forum, asking about the psychological relevance of dreams only.
-m.
30 Sep 12
Originally posted by RJHindsThe "dream" that gave rise to the Book of Revelation - purported to the direct teaching of Christ [yes, seriously] - produced long after his death, endorsed (if not created specially) by corporate Christianity, happened to serve up a whole raft of obscurant, rhetorical devices that corporate Christianity needed, even if it bore no resemblance to Christ's teaching. Yes, I would say there was plenty of "psychological significance" connected to how this 'holy scripture' would be utilized by ecclesiastical technocrats and how a "dream" was used to justify it.
The dreams presented in the Holy Bible seem to me to have more than just a psychological significance. They seem to be prophetic as well.
30 Sep 12
Originally posted by RJHindsI always thought the holy bible was a big dream of prophetic, psychological significations, such as morals which all incidentally believed gods portray.
The dreams presented in the Holy Bible seem to me to have more than just a psychological significance. They seem to be prophetic as well.
Thanks for answering.
-m.
30 Sep 12
6 edits
Originally posted by FMFSince you asked me to correct you if you are wrong, I will.
Why is it a "problem" that some people are unimpressed by you telling them about your dreams and don't take the content you describe at "face value"? You have already conceded - correct me if I'm wrong - that it doesn't make any difference to you. Do you actually wish that people would act in some way upon what you say is the meaning of your "testimony"?
I didn't say other people's acceptance of my testimony makes no difference to me. I said your posts make no difference to me.
And with your claim to be so curious about my implied, self-contradicting "frustration" and indifference at the same time... I made it quite clear that though my inability to convince others I am telling the truth is a little frustrating, ultimately I understand that the event was something for me personally, and not necessarily meant as a tool for evangelism. The only frustration I feel is due to my own shortcomings, i.e. my inability to adequately testify to what happened to me. It's similar to the common frustration people experience when trying to describe their dream. The explanation of it never seems to adequately describe what the dreamer actually experienced.
As I recall, Cher was so moved by her dream sequences, she was compelled to write a book about it. Unsprisingly, the people that read the book walked away confused, even bored by it. Dreams are often signifcant only to the dreamer themselves, and sound confusing and strange to others.
If I was a world-class novelist or a talented and charismatic speaker, I would surely have better success in describing my event well enough so that the listener could understand the significance.
Anyway, because of the indifferent and negative reactions I have received when giving the testimony in the past, I have elected to reserve it only for the select few who know me well enough to know that I don't lie and I'm not exaggarating.
Obviously, the subject of this thread is very important to me because dreams I had have changed my life. But I did not and do not intend for my participation in this thread to turn into a crusade to have me reveal what my dreams were about.
I'll get back to what I said in reply.
--> Dreams play a significant role in the bible
I wasn't thinking of Revelation when I said that. I was specifically recalling the dreams that God created in the minds of Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon (who called upon Daniel to interpret his dream) and Pharaoh of Egypt (who called upon Joseph).
It is obvious from those stories of the bible that God can and does give the gift of dreams and that those dreams are/were (just like mine) significant, symbolic, and prophetic.
30 Sep 12
1 edit
Originally posted by sumydidWhat "crusade"? By whom?
Obviously, the subject of this thread is very important to me because dreams I had have changed my life. But I did not and do not intend for my participation in this thread to turn into a crusade to have me reveal what my dreams were about.
30 Sep 12
Originally posted by sumydidOriginally posted by FMF
I didn't say other people's acceptance of my testimony makes no difference to me. I said your posts make no difference to me.
Whether it's "true" you had the dream as you describe, or not true, what difference does it make to anything objective or external to you?
Originally posted by sumydid
It doesn't, really. The only difference it made was with me, internally. And I'm quite certain that was the intent all along.
30 Sep 12
1 edit
Two RHP Dreams on the sleepy pillow for me last night: First, that all the unhappy people on Red Hot Pawn would stop behaving so badly, at least, inside the public forums ; Second, that earlier in the evening I had revised my Red Hot Pawn Profile (placing a $20.00 earnest money speculation somewhere where the small stash wouldn't be noticed) that everybody would oblige except
gb
.
😞
30 Sep 12
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyI don't dream. I never have done, to my concious level. I've never jumped in my sleep, as I hear many have, and I have never has illusions of dreams.
Two RHP Dreams on the sleepy pillow for me last night: First, that all the unhappy people on Red Hot Pawn would stop behaving so badly, at least, inside the public forums ; Second, that earlier in the evening I had revised my Red Hot Pawn Profile (placing a $20.00 earnest money speculation somewhere where the small stash wouldn't be noticed) that everybody would oblige except [hidden]gb[/hidden].
😞
I guess that must be I am non-spiritual?
-m.
Originally posted by mikelomJust for my own pleasure, as always, I thought I'd describe some of what I have been reading on this topic. There are a number of different theories about dreaming.
What's with the 'assumption' made in the title of this OP thread anyway?
The assumption is that dreams have 'both' a spiritual and a psychological significance.
Sorry, not, but I disagree with the original assumption on the part of spiritual significance.
Psychologically, anybody with any reading knows that the brain uses dreaming to order the days ...[text shortened]... ld be in the science forum, asking about the psychological relevance of dreams only.
-m.
Freud thought that in sleep the conscious mind takes a well earned break and allows our true desires and wishes to emerge. Every dream expressed a wish which our mind would normally repress. Critics suggest that Freud's theory is itself an example of wish fulfilment since it is not scientifically supported at all.
Revonsuo, in 2000, suggested that dreams serve an evolutionary purpose, in that they enable us to have a dress rehearsal for things that make us very anxious, so that we can visualise what we might be able to do in such a situation without actually incurring any real danger. Critics suggest that self styled "evolutionary psychology" is made up of very interesting "just-so" stories. Maybe dreams serve an evolutionary purpose - as we have evolved to become a dreaming species, that is a tautology. But we need more than a just-so story to provide a convincing explanation.
In 1980, Francis Crick - of DNA fame, the very man - suggested a computer analogy, that dreams are the brain's way to sort through data and decide what is important and what is not. It is a defragmenter and as a by-product, a source for eureka moments. Criticis point out that the brain is not a computer. Analogies may sometimes be helpful but they are just that - analogies.
In the 1970s, James Hobson at Harvard suggested that dreams provide a mechanism to deal with brain activity without waking up. In other words, what we dream about is not as significant as the biological importance of getting a good sleep. He had found that damage to a brain area which is activated during dreaming not only results in people losing the (apparent) ability to dream but also losing the ability to get a decent, restful sleep. Many think this is the most economical account of why we dream and what purpose it serves. We dream because our brain is continually active. We do not wake up because our body is incapacitated during sleep, which thankfully minimises sleep walking, throttling our partners, and the like. Dreams are vague and fuzzy because we are not able to work on our thinking at a conscious level. However, we can learn techniques to take some control over our dreams and make them go where we would prefer. We can also learn how to wake up from a bad dream - twitch a finger or blink for example and the dream will stop.
Generally, sleep research has shown that we all have periods of REM sleep and this is associated with dreaming. Brain evidence suggests that we do all dream several times and for significant periods each night. We are most likely to recall our dream if we are woken up during the dream. We are more likely to report dreams about topics that make us anxious or unhappy or worried. We are also most likely to recall a dream when it has some relevance to an event that brings the memory to prominence in our mind. Hence, we are very selective in how we recall dreams and as a result may have the illusion that our dreams matter and maybe even that they are predictive of something in our future. It is still wisdom after the event - we recall and tidy up what we find relevant and forget the rest.
Given the number of people around and the number of dreams they have, it is unsurprising that when significant public events - especially disasters, plane crashes and the like - take place, there will statistically be someone, somewhere, whose dream can be thought to describe the disaster before it happened. If we allow quite vague connections to be included, thousands may report dreaming of the impending disaster.
Worries are often well founded so if we dream about our worries our dreams will sometimes be very acurate. Lincoln told of a dream that he would be assassinated before he was. But then he had been told of threats to assassinate him and had already surivived attempted assassination, so it is hardly a big deal that he had such a dream; probably lots. It is less common for people to (claim to) dream about future happy events.
Lots of examples are known of people solving problems in a dream. This mainly confirms that our brain is continually active outside of our awareness. We are, indeed, only very selectively aware of a very small part of what is happening in our brains. Creativity is not usually the product of the linear, rational thinking we associate (maybe not always correctly) with our conscious thinking.
30 Sep 12
Originally posted by finneganErudite and enlightening.
Just for my own pleasure, as always, I thought I'd describe some of what I have been reading on this topic. There are a number of different theories about dreaming.
Freud thought that in sleep the conscious mind takes a well earned break and allows our true desires and wishes to emerge. Every dream expressed a wish which our mind would normally repres ...[text shortened]... rational thinking we associate (maybe not always correctly) with our conscious thinking.
Nobody here should become threatened or afreud to express their own views.
gb
01 Oct 12
1 edit
Originally posted by FMF"I've always dreamed of war , everything is destroyed , color , I'm always running , people are being shot down and killed by the army troops , it's always winter in this dream , I'm always cold , I escape , steal a car or truck , find my boys and we drive into the woods , find a secret passage to a new world and hide out..." -(email from a friend whose neighborr apparently went through hell, having been raised in post-war Europe)...... For starters, how about a little compassion for less fortunate mankind?
So you concede that it does not mean anything to anyone - apart from yourself - whether people believe you or not?
One wonders, then, why 'people believing you or not believing you' is relevant in any way.
01 Oct 12
Originally posted by FMFSo why don't you let it go at that? Are you obsessive–compulsive?
Originally posted by FMF
[b]Whether it's "true" you had the dream as you describe, or not true, what difference does it make to anything objective or external to you?
Originally posted by sumydid
It doesn't, really. The only difference it made was with me, internally. And I'm quite certain that was the intent all along. [/b]