14 Jul 18
Originally posted by @rajk999You should read what I wrote, when I was speaking about that verse I said that Jesus never denied the works, He denied knowing them. The works did not save them!
You used this passage Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Matthew 7:22-23 KJV) to prove that Jesus condemns good works.
You said that these people did good works but Jesus condemned them.
14 Jul 18
Originally posted by @kellyjayDid this people do good works? Seems you are changing your tune. Previously you said that they did good works. Jesus acknowledged that they did good works, and that that is proof that good works are not required. What is required is a relationship with jesus.
You should read what I wrote, when I was speaking about that verse I said that Jesus never denied the works, He denied knowing them. The works did not save them!
14 Jul 18
Originally posted by @rajk999You are changing my words, as I have said those that know the Lord will do good works as a byproduct of the having the Holy Spirit in them. Those we are talking about did the things they claimed Jesus didn’t deny that, but told them He didn’t know them.
Did this people do good works? Seems you are changing your tune. Previously you said that they did good works. Jesus acknowledged that they did good works, and that that is proof that good works are not required. What is required is a relationship with jesus.
Originally posted by @kellyjayI know you keep saying that but that is not supported in the Bible In that very passage these people calling Lord Lord had the Holy Spirit. They must have because they were able to cast out devils and do miracles, that is what HS gifts are about.
You are changing my words, as I have said those that know the Lord will do good works as a byproduct of the having the Holy Spirit in them. Those we are talking about did the things they claimed Jesus didn’t deny that, but told them He didn’t know them.
Having the Holy Spirit is no guarantee that a Christian follow after a life of righteousness. Jesus called these people workers of iniquity. Clearly they were using the Holy Spirit for evil works, and not for good works. Therefore Jesus condemned these Lord Lord people who had the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is a guide.So you can quote these passages about having the Spirit of Christ blah blah blah ... all you like. In the end what matters is good works as Jesus says clearly shortly after condemning these Lord Lord people
15 Jul 18
2 edits
Originally posted by @rajk999I never said they didn't have to Holy Spirit, I'm surprised you think this odd isn't
I know you keep saying that but that is not supported in the Bible In that very passage these people calling Lord Lord had the Holy Spirit. They must have because they were able to cast out devils and do miracles, that is what HS gifts are about.
Having the Holy Spirit is no guarantee that a Christian follow after a life of righteousness. Jesus called t ...[text shortened]... what matters is good works as Jesus says clearly shortly after condemning these Lord Lord people
Hebrews 6:4-6 one of your favorite passages? They were trusting in the works they were
doing, not the Savior who died for them and rose from the dead. Jesus said He is the
Way, not He is the way with works.
Hebrews 6:4-6 English Standard Version (ESV)
4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
15 Jul 18
Originally posted by @kellyjayThe Matt 7 passage says nothing about Jesus telling them that they were trusting in the works they were doing. Where do you get that from?
I never said they didn't have to Holy Spirit, I'm surprised you think this odd isn't
Hebrews 6:4-6 one of your favorite passages? They were trusting in the works they were
doing, not the Savior who died for them and rose from the dead. Jesus said He is the
Way, not He is the way with works.
Hebrews 6:4-6 English Standard Version (ESV)
4 For it is im ...[text shortened]... they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
Originally posted by @kellyjayThe people said they were doing miracles, prophesying, casting out devils etc.
What was it they were saying?
Jesus said they were workers of iniquity.
So they were not doing good works, and were doing evil works aka iniquity.
Jesus never said anything about trusting in their own works.
Where did you get that from.
15 Jul 18
Originally posted by @rajk999From the fact those were the things that they were counting on to get them in.
The people said they were doing miracles, prophesying, casting out devils etc.
Jesus said they were workers of iniquity.
So they were not doing good works, and were doing evil works aka iniquity.
Jesus never said anything about trusting in their own works.
Where did you get that from.
Don't you preach that over and over, mouth worshipers? They are more than likely those
that look good on the outside, but not the inside. Hard to say what their sins were, it isn't
said, outside of they didn't know the Lord, so they were pretending to be something other
than what they really were. Maybe they didn't love God, maybe they hated other people,
maybe they lusted or other things. What we do know is that the Lord didn't know them,
and since He is the Way, they missed out.
15 Jul 18
Originally posted by @kellyjaySO Jesus never said anything about them trusting in their own works.
From the fact those were the things that they were counting on to get them in.
Don't you preach that over and over, mouth worshipers? They are more than likely those
that look good on the outside, but not the inside. Hard to say what their sins were, it isn't
said, outside of they didn't know the Lord, so they were pretending to be something other
than ...[text shortened]... s. What we do know is that the Lord didn't know them,
and since He is the Way, they missed out.
You made that up.
Having the Holy Spirit / Christ's Spirit is no guarantee that someone will do good works or walk out your life doing the works he has... like you claim
You made that up as well.
Jesus never condemns good works
You made that up too.
15 Jul 18
Originally posted by @rajk999He said He didn't know them, He didn't talk about the works done, because works don't
SO Jesus never said anything about them trusting in their own works.
You made that up.
Having the Holy Spirit / Christ's Spirit is no guarantee that someone will do good works or walk out your life doing the works he has... like you claim
You made that up as well.
Jesus never condemns good works
You made that up too.
save Jesus does. They brought up the works because they thought that would be enough
it was not.
15 Jul 18
Originally posted by @kellyjayThese were followers of Christ with the Holy Spirit.
He said He didn't know them, He didn't talk about the works done, because works don't
save Jesus does. They brought up the works because they thought that would be enough
it was not.
Clearly they professed their faith
Nobody said anything about works saving people. That is your line.
They did evil works.
So the lessons here are
- Not everyone who profess their faith and have Holy Spirit or Christ Spirit do good works
- Jesus never condemned good works
What Jesus means by 'knew' them is another matter which you seem not to understand
15 Jul 18
Originally posted by @rajk999What evil works did they do? The specific works done in Jesus name where good were they not? Jesus said He did not know them they were workers of iniquity! So they had good works to their credit which wasn’t disputed and they were still workers of iniquity. Neither Jesus or I am condemning good words, people outside of Jesus are condemned.
These were followers of Christ with the Holy Spirit.
Clearly they professed their faith
Nobody said anything about works saving people. That is your line.
They did evil works.
So the lessons here are
- Not everyone who profess their faith and have Holy Spirit or Christ Spirit do good works
- Jesus never condemned good works
What Jesus means by 'knew' them is another matter which you seem not to understand
Originally posted by @kellyjayWhat evil works did they do?
What evil works did they do? The specific works done in Jesus name where good were they not? Jesus said He did not know them they were workers of iniquity! So they had good works to their credit which wasn’t disputed and they were still workers of iniquity. Neither Jesus or I am condemning good words, people outside of Jesus are condemned.
Jesus did not say. That is not relevant
The specific works done in Jesus name where good were they not?
Wrong. Jesus said no such thing
Jesus said He did not know them they were workers of iniquity!
This the crux of your problem. You are ignoring what the bible says about who Jesus knows. You know it but you ignore it because it conflicts with your doctrine. Jesus knows all who follow his commandments
So they had good works to their credit
Nonsense. the passage says no such thing. you are such a blatant bible twister
which wasn’t disputed and they were still workers of iniquity.
Yes it was disputed. Nobody said they did good works
Jesus called them evil workers
Neither Jesus or I am condemning good words, people outside of Jesus are condemned.
What exactly is 'outside of Jesus' and what is 'inside of Jesus'.
15 Jul 18
Originally posted by @rajk999You are cherry picking what you want to see and ignoring what is there. Giving some pieces of the text more importance than others.
What evil works did they do?
[b] Jesus did not say. That is not relevant
The specific works done in Jesus name where good were they not?
Wrong. Jesus said no such thing
Jesus said He did not know them they were workers of iniquity!
This the crux of your problem. You are ignoring what the bible says about who Jesus knows. You know ...[text shortened]... Jesus are condemned.
[b] What exactly is 'outside of Jesus' and what is 'inside of Jesus'.[/b]