Spirituality 101

Originally posted by @kellyjay
You are cherry picking what you want to see and ignoring what is there. Giving some pieces of the text more importance than others.

Am I adding to what the bible says?

Jesus says these are workers of iniquity ie evil workers.
But you say they did good works [not in the bible]

All over the teachings of the Bible Jesus and the Apostles speak of doing good works as a NECESSARY REQUIREMENT for eternal life.
But you call good works, evil because it does not save.
Nobody ever said good works saves.
Jesus saves and Jesus saves and gives eternal life to those who do good works [need references?]

So you call evil, good, and you call good, evil.
There is a special punishment for people who do that.
Be careful.

Originally posted by @rajk999
Am I adding to what the bible says?

Jesus says these are workers of iniquity ie evil workers.
But you say they did good works [not in the bible]

All over the teachings of the Bible Jesus and the Apostles speak of doing good works as a NECESSARY REQUIREMENT for eternal life.
But you call good works, evil because it does not save.
Nobody ever said go ...[text shortened]... od, and you call good, evil.
There is a special punishment for people who do that.
Be careful.

I am acknowledging both sets of works, one does not mean that the other is not true.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
I am acknowledging both sets of works, one does not mean that the other is not true.

A Christian with the Spirit of Christ would see it the very same way that Christ saw it.

Christ said they are workers of iniquity. You want to claim that they did good works.

Your claim that you have the Spirit of Christ is a delusion

Originally posted by @kellyjay
I am acknowledging both sets of works, one does not mean that the other is not true.

Clearly you don't understand what Jesus is saying in Matthew 7:21-23.

If you understood the following, perhaps you would:
Matthew 7
17“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18“A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20“So then, you will know them by their fruits.

Clearly Jesus is saying that an individual either produces good fruit and only good fruit OR produces bad fruit and only bad fruit.

That a good tree cannot produce bad fruit is readily understood.

That a bad tree cannot produce good fruit is difficult for some to understand. Some might say, "But I've done all these 'good' things'. Aren't they 'good fruit'?". Jesus addresses them in Matthew 7:21-23. Jesus clearly tells "evildoers" that since not ALL of their fruit is "good" , He considers all of their fruit as "bad" no matter how "good" they may deem them. In fact, he not only considers their fruit as "bad", He says, "Depart from me. I never knew you".

I am acknowledging both sets of works, one does not mean that the other is not true.

While you might "[acknowledge] both sets of works", Jesus clearly does not. Jesus considers it all "bad".

Originally posted by @rajk999
A Christian with the Spirit of Christ would see it the very same way that Christ saw it.

Christ said they are workers of iniquity. You want to claim that they did good works.

Your claim that you have the Spirit of Christ is a delusion

Just how would you know what a Christian with the Spirit of Christ would know, would
see, or how they would act? Everyone is a sinner, we are all capable of doing good
works, look at the parable Jesus told about the Pharisee and the tax collector, the
Pharisee gave a list of all the good works he did, the tax collector turned to God asking
for forgiveness because he knew he was a sinner. The so called righteous man was
trusting in the works he was doing while the sinner was asking for God's forgiveness,
because he knew he was a sinner. Which one did Jesus say was forgiven, again it was
not the one who came to him with a list of good works!

I'm not claiming those standing before Jesus did good works, what they said they did
that is written in scripture are good works and no one denied they did them. If you want
to say they are not, then you have to turn around and talk about why not since Jesus did
them, and the Apostles did them in Jesus' name too.

Luke 18: 9-14
He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous,
and treated others with contempt: “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a
Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus:
‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or
even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ But the tax
collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast,
saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ I tell you, this man went down to his house
justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the
one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Originally posted by @thinkofone
Clearly you don't understand what Jesus is saying in Matthew 7:21-23.

If you understood the following, perhaps you would:
Matthew 7
17“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18[b]“A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down a ...[text shortened]... might "[acknowledge] both sets of works", Jesus clearly does not. Jesus considers it all "bad".[/b]

You are not taking scripture in context. Jesus was talking about good and bad fruit, while
earlier we were speaking about Jesus being the Way to God, the only way to God.

I agree a good tree produces good fruit, I also tell you that if you want to do the works of
God, you need to have God IN YOUR LIFE, without which you do not belong to God.
The fruit question or discussion does not address who Jesus is, only what is produced by
being good or bad. If you do not have God in your life, the only thing you can produce are
the works of man/flesh. The things of man and the things of God are two different things,
man can only produce the things of man and that is it. God requires more, if you do not
have the Spirit of God you cannot please God so nothing done without God short of
asking God into your life will please God in the flesh.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
Just how would you know what a Christian with the Spirit of Christ would know, would
see, or how they would act? Everyone is a sinner, we are all capable of doing good
works, look at the parable Jesus told about the Pharisee and the tax collector, the
Pharisee gave a list of all the good works he did, the tax collector turned to God asking
for forgiven ...[text shortened]... everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the
one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

You are trying a diversion.

The people said they did wonderful works.
You want to continue to claim that they did good works.
Jesus said they were workers of iniquity.

Not interested in your other story.

Originally posted by @rajk999
You are trying a diversion.

The people said they did wonderful works.
You want to continue to claim that they did good works.
Jesus said they were workers of iniquity.

Not interested in your other story.

That is right, Jesus said they were workers of iniquity, and they said that they did the
works that they claimed they did, which were good ones. So they did works that were
good, and it didn't matter they were still called workers of iniquity. Which is what I have
been saying all along. I get you are not interested in the scriptures where Jesus dispels
your doctrine, that is completely understandable. So if Jesus' words don't interest you,
then ignore them.

Luke 18: 9-14
He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous,
and treated others with contempt: “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a
Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus:
‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or
even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ But the tax
collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast,
saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ I tell you, this man went down to his house
justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the
one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Originally posted by @kellyjay
That is right, Jesus said they were workers of iniquity, and they said that they did the
works that they claimed they did, which were good ones. So they did works that were
good, and it didn't matter they were still called workers of iniquity. Which is what I have
been saying all along. I get you are not interested in the scriptures where Jesus dispels ...[text shortened]... everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the
one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Like I said .. You are the only one saying that they did good works.
Jesus said no such thing.
You keep saying they did good works because you want to claim that good works are not good.

Originally posted by @rajk999
Like I said .. You are the only one saying that they did good works.
Jesus said no such thing.
You keep saying they did good works because you want to claim that good works are not good.

They were standing right in front of Jesus on the day of Judgment, Jesus did not call
them out for lying. You think anyone on that day is going to be able to lie?

Are you of the opinion that those that do evil cannot do good works at all? That if they
only do bad works never a good one? Are you of the opinion that those you call righteous
only do righteous good works and never sin at all?

Originally posted by @kellyjay
You are not taking scripture in context. Jesus was talking about good and bad fruit, while
earlier we were speaking about Jesus being the Way to God, the only way to God.

I agree a good tree produces good fruit, I also tell you that if you want to do the works of
God, you need to have God IN YOUR LIFE, without which you do not belong to God.
The frui ...[text shortened]... od so nothing done without God short of
asking God into your life will please God in the flesh.

Jesus was talking about good and bad fruit, while
earlier we were speaking about Jesus being the Way to God, the only way to God.

That was a different thread and a different topic.

You repeatedly show that you struggle to understand not only what posters on this forum are saying, but also what Jesus is saying. It's unfortunate.

Originally posted by @thinkofone
[b]Jesus was talking about good and bad fruit, while
earlier we were speaking about Jesus being the Way to God, the only way to God.

That was a different thread and a different topic.

You repeatedly show that you struggle to understand not only what posters on this forum are saying, but also what Jesus is saying. It's unfortunate.[/b]

LOL yes so instead of telling me and everyone else why how I was not getting that
scripture right you change topics never giving the proper way of looking at things. I think
it is you who struggle with that verse that you can claim I got it wrong, yet are completely
unable or willing to show me the proper way that scripture should be looked at.

I will not call that unfortunate, there are other words that come to mind none of which are
good ones.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
They were standing right in front of Jesus on the day of Judgment, Jesus did not call
them out for lying. You think anyone on that day is going to be able to lie?

Are you of the opinion that those that do evil cannot do good works at all? That if they
only do bad works never a good one? Are you of the opinion that those you call righteous
only do righteous good works and never sin at all?

I do not know all that.
What I do know is that YOU say these people did good works
Jesus said they did evil works
The people claimed to do miracles and prophesies and cast out devils
Nowhere did Jesus ever call that good works

Originally posted by @rajk999
I do not know all that.
What I do know is that YOU say these people did good works
Jesus said they did evil works
The people claimed to do miracles and prophesies and cast out devils
Nowhere did Jesus ever call that good works

Yes, I am saying casting out devils is a good work, do you think casting out devils is a
work of iniquity, if so when Jesus did it how do you explain that?

Not only that why didn't the guy whose good work list that included, fasting twice a week,
and giving tithes of all he gets, get denied by Jesus? Are those things not good works
too?

Originally posted by @kellyjay
LOL yes so instead of telling me and everyone else why how I was not getting that
scripture right you change topics never giving the proper way of looking at things. I think
it is you who struggle with that verse that you can claim I got it wrong, yet are completely
unable or willing to show me the proper way that scripture should be looked at.

I wil ...[text shortened]... not call that unfortunate, there are other words that come to mind none of which are
good ones.

Listen KJ it's really simple.

1) "Spirituality 101" the topic is Matthew 7:21-23

2) "Total depravity verse list" the topic is John 14:6

Yet on this thread you posted the following:
"Jesus was talking about good and bad fruit, while
earlier we were speaking about Jesus being the Way to God, the only way to God."

I pointed out to you that "That was a different thread and a different topic", meaning of course that our discussion about "Jesus being the Way to God" was on the "Total depravity verse list" thread. Yet you arrogantly assert that I'm the one who got things mixed up.

Check your arrogance and pride and look back through the posts on this thread and you should be able to see that what I've posted is true.

Like I said, "You repeatedly show that you struggle to understand not only what posters on this forum are saying, but also what Jesus is saying. It's unfortunate".

Your reading comprehension is poor. Your ability to keep track of more than one is poor. Your critical thinking skills are poor. Your conceptual thinking skills are poor.

Yet somehow you arrogantly and pridefully forge on as if they aren't.

"The truth will make you free".