10 Mar 06
Originally posted by DragonFriendI never said it was scientific.
That's not a scientific approach, but you may certainly do whatever you wish. God will still be there when you run out of other explanations.
DF
Certainly I think of it as being closer to a scientific viewpoint than a religious one, but in the end my starting point is a faith like and religious faith - it just includes no supernatural beings.
10 Mar 06
Originally posted by amannionThen what do you have faith in? Science?
I never said it was scientific.
Certainly I think of it as being closer to a scientific viewpoint than a religious one, but in the end my starting point is a faith like and religious faith - it just includes no supernatural beings.
DF
10 Mar 06
Originally posted by amannionEvery time this comes up I recommend locating a book called "The Origin of Consciousness In The Breakdown Of The Bicameral Mind" by Julian Jaynes. It addresses exactly these questions. Plus explaining Fascism. And our apparently innate need to kowtow to a higher authority. 😕
Following on from that, is it something that is important for humans to experience and nurture - kind of like a nutrient that our bodies need? If that is the case, why? Is it connected to our experience of consciousness perhaps? That is, the sense that we are individuals with minds and so forth.
http://www.julianjaynes.org/bicameralmind.php
😉 Eventually I'm sure someone will actually mean the questions they ask and take the time to pursue an answer or at least investigate Jaynes' brilliant deductive reasoning. You might be first!
10 Mar 06
Originally posted by widgetThanks widget,
Every time this comes up I recommend locating a book called "The Origin of Consciousness In The Breakdown Of The Bicameral Mind" by Julian Jaynes. It addresses exactly these questions. Plus explaining Fascism. And our apparently innate need to kowtow to a higher authority. 😕
http://www.julianjaynes.org/bicameralmind.php
😉 Eventually I'm sure someon ...[text shortened]... n answer or at least investigate Jaynes' brilliant deductive reasoning. You might be first!
I'll stick this on my list, sounds like a good read.
10 Mar 06
Originally posted by scottishinnzWelcome! The website's a pretty good introduction but Jaynes takes some huge intuitive leaps in the development of the argument/thesis that I didn't really begin to understand until the third full reading 😲 And then... A moment of epiphany!
Thanks widget,
I'll stick this on my list, sounds like a good read.
In my humble opinion, his theory is more about sociopsycholgical hard-wiring than it is about intellect 😀 Though they are ultimately the same. 😉 Something we are loathe to admit most of the time.
10 Mar 06
1 edit
Originally posted by widgetHmm, perhaps (i'll read it and get back to you!).
Welcome! The website's a pretty good introduction but Jaynes takes some huge intuitive leaps in the development of the argument/thesis that I didn't really begin to understand until the third full reading 😲 And then... A moment of epiphany!
In my humble opinion, his theory is more about sociopsycholgical hard-wiring than it is about intellect 😀 Though they are ultimately the same. 😉 Something we are loathe to admit most of the time.
My fav "hard book", is 'Zen and the art of motorcycle maintainance'. Brilliant.
10 Mar 06
Originally posted by DragonFriendOr it could be that he's feeling the beauty that the Goddess put into this world. 🙂
Your rejection of God in no way affects His existance. And since He does exist, you might very well be sensing His presence when alone in the wilderness. God reaches out to each of us. You might be reporting about the times you've noticed Him reaching out to you.
DF
10 Mar 06
1 edit
Originally posted by DragonFriendThe problem is this:
That's not a scientific approach, but you may certainly do whatever you wish. God will still be there when you run out of other explanations.
DF
If a being came down who could move mountains, start fires,
cure the sick, etc., and claimed to be god, how would you know it is
not just a very advanced being from a planet full of such individuals?
If TWO such individuals came down, the religious ones could say
one is a devil and one is a god but how would even the most
'advanced' religious one figure out if this one is a god or not.
The next part is, how do you know there is a god when such a person
has not come down to us, ever. You may claim Jesus or whoever
did that already but that is only the claim of men. So how would you
know this advanced person was someone you would want to worship
as a god? I guess what I am saying is how would you discern the
motives of such an individual. Short answer is you can't, any more
than you could for the gods you already worship, who BTW have been
noticably absent from our planet.
11 Mar 06
Originally posted by sonhouseThe way you know some powerful being is God and not some alien from a far planet is through consistency. The Bible is God's message to mankind. If the being acts consistently with that message, then it's God. If it was a being from some other planet acting like God, then it's up to God to stop him from doing so. He is well aware that we would not be able to on our own.
The problem is this:
If a being came down who could move mountains, start fires,
cure the sick, etc., and claimed to be god, how would you know it is
not just a very advanced being from a planet full of such individuals?
If TWO such individuals came down, the religious ones could say
one is a devil and one is a god but how would even the most
'advanc ...[text shortened]... could for the gods you already worship, who BTW have been
noticably absent from our planet.
How do I know God isn't simply one His race? I don't. And it doesn't matter. He still created all life on this planet, etc. It wouldn't change His deity at all.
I find it interesting that you think God is absent from this planet. I interact with Him almost daily. He helps His people out frequently, like a good parent. He's always willing to adopt if you're interested.
DF
11 Mar 06
Originally posted by amannionMy guess is that judging by the name itself, spirituality would include belief in some sort of spirit.
Can there be such a thing - sprituality without religion?
I'm an atheist, so that's it for me for religion, but I spend a lot of time in the outdoors - bushwalking, skiing, surfing and so on - and there's a sense of connection with nature that I get, particularly when I'm alone and when I've been going hard at it for a while, that is pretty hard to define but feels to me like it might be spirituality.
Any thoughts?
11 Mar 06
I would say spirituality is more important than religion. Without Spirituality there would be no religion anyway. If God is nothing more than a concept or philosophy or something we 'believe' in then there's no point to it anyway! God has to be more than that. He would have to be alive and experienced in some way. I think your experiences of nature are very valid and you are probably closer to 'God' there than you would be in any church. If the Bible is to be believed then God follows us round all of our lives , it's just we don't realise his presence. This may or may not be true but religion won't help us with this. I would go with your spirit and see where it takes you.
11 Mar 06
Originally posted by DragonFriendI'd be interested to know more about your daily interactions with God.
The way you know some powerful being is God and not some alien from a far planet is through consistency. The Bible is God's message to mankind. If the being acts consistently with that message, then it's God. If it was a being from some other planet acting like God, then it's up to God to stop him from doing so. He is well aware that we would not be abl ...[text shortened]... requently, like a good parent. He's always willing to adopt if you're interested.
DF
What are they? What form do they take?
11 Mar 06
Originally posted by knightmeisterI agree, although since I reject the notion of God as an external supernatural being, I prefer the idea that God is me - that is, this feeling that religious people call God and tend to externalise, is in fact internal strengths coming to the surface.
I would say spirituality is more important than religion. Without Spirituality there would be no religion anyway. If God is nothing more than a concept or philosophy or something we 'believe' in then there's no point to it anyway! God has to be more than that. He would have to be alive and experienced in some way. I think your experiences of nature ar ...[text shortened]... eligion won't help us with this. I would go with your spirit and see where it takes you.
Not sure if that makes sense?
11 Mar 06
It makes sense in some ways but I'm wondering why you 'prefer' the idea 'that God is me' . ? Surely it's not about what we prefer! Sometimes I would 'prefer' not to believe in God/spirituality but I can't get away from it (I'm not a christian fundamentalist or anything, by the way) . It depends what you are looking for, truth or preferences? Spirituality (based on a belief in God) can sometimes be a rocky road but many Atheists only seem to want to portray it as a comforting coping mechanism. Also , have you ever wondered where your 'internal strengths' came from? Did you create yourself? And this 'feeling' you talk about , is it a feeling as such or could it be described as a 'presence'?Does this make sense? Sorry , but I've only got more questions....