Spirituality

AsOriginally posted by kirksey957
Why do you have the desire to try to persuade him? It seems to me with all the opportunities to explore religion and spirituality from a host of sources such as books, TV, churches, etc. that he has had ample opportunity to do that on his own. What makes your persuasion so special and unique?

I try to never give up, even when I fail.

I get discouraged sometimes because of all the information that is available to people from so many sorces. I'm constantly running up against those who think they have the truth, but in fact are full of misinformation. I'm sure you know what I mean!

As to what makes my persuasion special and unique. That is a matter of doctrine. I would love to get into that. When, where, what format. I hope you see this and will respond. Message me direct. If you want to.

Originally posted by josephw
I try to never give up, even when I fail.

I get discouraged sometimes because of all the information that is available to people from so many sorces. I'm constantly running up against those who think they have the truth, but in fact are full of misinformation. I'm sure you know what I mean!

As to what makes my persuasion special and unique. That is a m ...[text shortened]... , where, what format. I hope you see this and will respond. Message me direct. If you want to.

I think doctrine is different from method. If you never try to give up , as you say, are you not communicating in some way that people do not have free will or the intelligence to make up their own mind? There are some on the site who are in essence the Jehovah Witnesses of the site. Their way is the only way.

I have personally found the site to be more enjoyable when I don't feel obligated to change someone's mind. I enjoy good relationships with many humanists and atheists on the site. Who am I to change who they see themselves to be? The more I try to change them , the less I will learn from them.

You know, even Jesus said to just shake the dust off your feet and move on.

Originally posted by kirksey957
I think doctrine is different from method. If you never try to give up , as you say, are you not communicating in some way that people do not have free will or the intelligence to make up their own mind? There are some on the site who are in essence the Jehovah Witnesses of the site. Their way is the only way.

I have personally found the site to be ...[text shortened]... earn from them.

You know, even Jesus said to just shake the dust off your feet and move on.

I agree with you in prinsciple, and of course, doctrine depends on ones religious training and expirence and what they hold as absolutes.
Everyone seems to have their pet doctrines and sins. I think method is in large part a personality issue. We use what we have.

I believe that intelligents is not a factor in comprehending the truth, and I try not to question a persons right of free will. Even if I disagree with them. And it is not my place to judge. But are we not mandated by scripture to persuade men of the truth? To be a witness for the truth?

I also have friends and relitives who do not acknowlege God, and I don't try to cram God down thier throats every time I see them. But I look for every opportunity to engage, espicially when I hear them say something I know is in error. Sometimes it's not what we don't know that hurts us, but what we know that isn't so! There is a unique opportunity here in this forum to not just debate but to discuss and share our views, and in the prosess, as you said, learn from each other. Even though I claim to know THE truth, I haven't arrived at perfection by any strech of the immagination.

Honestly, I know I can't change anyone. Isn't it truth that changes a person?

Originally posted by josephw
I agree with you in prinsciple, and of course, doctrine depends on ones religious training and expirence and what they hold as absolutes.
Everyone seems to have their pet doctrines and sins. I think method is in large part a personality issue. We use what we have.

I believe that intelligents is not a factor in comprehending the truth, and I try not to qu ...[text shortened]... ination.

Honestly, I know I can't change anyone. Isn't it truth that changes a person?

A couple of reactions. You are correct that you cannot change anyone. Most lasting changes that people make are small changes over time.

Your view of "the truth" is what? Can you put into maybe two or three sentences? Pretend I am really dumb.

Originally posted by kirksey957
A couple of reactions. You are correct that you cannot change anyone. Most lasting changes that people make are small changes over time.

Your view of "the truth" is what? Can you put into maybe two or three sentences? Pretend I am really dumb.

About what?

Just kidding! I asked my wife, a momment ago, what the truth is and that's what she asked me.

Within the context of this thread I say that the truth is this; the creator of all that there is became a man just like you and me, but without sin, was crucified, and after 3 days was raised from the dead.

Foolishness to most people. But it is a core truth.

Is that the answer you were looking for?

Originally posted by josephw
About what?

Just kidding! I asked my wife, a momment ago, what the truth is and that's what she asked me.

Within the context of this thread I say that the truth is this; the creator of all that there is became a man just like you and me, but without sin, was crucified, and after 3 days was raised from the dead.

Foolishness to most people. But it is a core truth.

Is that the answer you were looking for?

That is good, but what was the point?

1. God makes one man imperfect
2. This imperfection causes one man to sin
3. This sin comes into the world and attaches itself to all mankind
4. God send prophets with laws to prove that man is defective
5. God sends His son who is perfect to die for our sin
6. We now have to belive in the son
7. Then when we die, we wake up perfect and live in heaven

What happens if we sin again in heaven?
If God could make us perfect, why didn't he just do it the first time?
What was the point of creating us imperfect and then rubbing it in?

Originally posted by josephw
About what?

Just kidding! I asked my wife, a momment ago, what the truth is and that's what she asked me.

Within the context of this thread I say that the truth is this; the creator of all that there is became a man just like you and me, but without sin, was crucified, and after 3 days was raised from the dead.

Foolishness to most people. But it is a core truth.

Is that the answer you were looking for?

Your core "truth" is exactly the same truth of the creeds and what I was brought up with. However, this means nothing to me if I do not know, understand, respect, or even love the messenger. I think this is why the internet is a poor forum for evangelism. Exchange of ideas, yes. A game of chess, yes. Salvation of one's soul? Not likely.

Originally posted by kirksey957
Your core "truth" is exactly the same truth of the creeds and what I was brought up with. However, this means nothing to me if I do not know, understand, respect, or even love the messenger. I think this is why the internet is a poor forum for evangelism. Exchange of ideas, yes. A game of chess, yes. Salvation of one's soul? Not likely.

You may be absolutely right. I'm a new comer here and I might just come to the same conclussion eventually.

But I am currantly engaged with an individual and I have hopes they may see "the truth".

WhyOriginally posted by Varqa
That is good, but what was the point?

1. God makes one man imperfect
2. This imperfection causes one man to sin
3. This sin comes into the world and attaches itself to all mankind
4. God send prophets with laws to prove that man is defective
5. God sends His son who is perfect to die for our sin
6. We now have to belive in the son
7. Then when we d ...[text shortened]... ust do it the first time?
What was the point of creating us imperfect and then rubbing it in?

This is the thing that puzzles me almost all the time!

Your #1 says " God makes one man imperfect"

Why do you begin with misinformation? God did not "make" Adam imperfect.

Please respond. I would love to get into this with you.

Originally posted by josephw
This is the thing that puzzles me almost all the time!

Your #1 says " God makes one man imperfect"

Why do you begin with misinformation? God did not "make" Adam imperfect.

Please respond. I would love to get into this with you.

I would think that anyone capable of sinning is, by definition, imperfect.

Originally posted by josephw
This is the thing that puzzles me almost all the time!

Your #1 says " God makes one man imperfect"

Why do you begin with misinformation? God did not "make" Adam imperfect.

Please respond. I would love to get into this with you.

If we take # 7 to be true, then #1 must be true. When we eventually end up in heaven, we are somehow perfect. If not, another Adam can sin again and well here we go again.

Originally posted by Varqa
If we take # 7 to be true, then #1 must be true. When we eventually end up in heaven, we are somehow perfect. If not, another Adam can sin again and well here we go again.

You and the skipper are obviuosly confused. You either have not read the bible, or cannot understand it, or are deliberately being misleading. And not only that, but you and virtually everybody else I seek to have dialouge with in this forum fail to respond to the very simple statements I make or questions I ask.

Can't any of you follow the thread?

Originally posted by josephw
You and the skipper are obviuosly confused. You either have not read the bible, or cannot understand it, or are deliberately being misleading. And not only that, but you and virtually everybody else I seek to have dialouge with in this forum fail to respond to the very simple statements I make or questions I ask.

Can't any of you follow the thread?

I have read the book. Tell me where I am going wrong.

Originally posted by Varqa
I have read the book. Tell me where I am going wrong.

Have you ever heard it said that every verse in the bible has one correct interpretation but many applications?

I have spent thousands of hours over the years studying the book, and have read dozens of commentaries and books by recognized authorities of the bible. There are irrefutable absolute truths and facts that any learned individual understands. All detractors of established docrinal truth are either deluted or lieing.

Originally posted by josephw
Have you ever heard it said that every verse in the bible has one correct interpretation but many applications?

I have spent thousands of hours over the years studying the book, and have read dozens of commentaries and books by recognized authorities of the bible. There are irrefutable absolute truths and facts that any learned individual understands. All detractors of established docrinal truth are either deluted or lieing.

Unfortunately we no longer have the giant of scriptural context on the site. He often said that there are many interpretations to a passage and that that was actually the prefered method of study and interpretation.

Do a search of visteds in the forums.