Star of Bethlehem ??

Originally posted by divegeester
"lol lol lol" That's your mocking style coming through again when challenged Galveston, it's not edifying.

The scripture is very clear in supporting the conventional Christian view of the star and the magi. I say again:

They saw a sign in the heavens. We are instructed to look for signs in scripture. You are wrong to suggest (no evidence) that the ...[text shortened]... ce you provide for your position is non existent, instead you propose conjecture and assumption.

Again YOU ARE NOT READING WHAT I'VE SAID as usual and you always add nonsence statements that I never said and continually try this deferring of the actual subject.
So where did I ever say they were using astrology in finding Jesus????????????????????????????????????????????????? NO WHERE DUDE!!!!!!
You know I don't really care what you believe or why you believe it, period!

Originally posted by divegeester
I think you know very well that I'm referring to the video link posted by Manny in the 2nd post of this thread.

Did you view it Galveston, so you can gain from fresh insight?

No I don't know. And you wonder why I use the word "fool" when I'm answering you with your post?

And for your information I had read that long before Manny posted it.

Originally posted by divegeester
I think the essence of what myself and Menace are disagreeing with you on is that you believe the wise men were led by satan through the forbidden act of astrology and we believe they were led by God through signs in the heavens.

Agreed that is what it seemed like that your insinuating that Satan sent the star but I think the scriptures do not give that line thought credence. It's feasible to think however that Herod was used by Satan and his fear and pride of a potential rival made him commit acts of horror as in the slaying of all of the Children 2 & under. Lastly in Genesis God says the Sun moon and Stars are meant for signs and Seasons and well the seasons part is to help mark time. The scriptures teach that God alone controls the heavens

Manny


Manny

Originally posted by menace71
Agreed that is what it seemed like that your insinuating that Satan sent the star but I think the scriptures do not give that line thought credence. It's feasible to think however that Herod was used by Satan and his fear and pride of a potential rival made him commit acts of horror as in the slaying of all of the Children 2 & under. Lastly in Genesis God s ...[text shortened]... to help mark time. The scriptures teach that God alone controls the heavens

Manny


Manny

A couple more points that one needs to consider.

Could satan be the one behind this star or light? Satan is spoken of here as being able to do this:

2 Thessalonians 2:9-10
Revised Standard Version (RSV)

9 "The coming of the lawless one by the activity of Satan will be with all power and with pretended (((((signs and wonders)))))), 10 and with all wicked deception for those who are to perish, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved."

2 Corinthians 11:14
Revised Standard Version (RSV)
14 "And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an ((((angel of light))))))".


Ephesians 2:2
Revised Standard Version (RSV)
2 "in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the (((((prince of the power of the air)))))), the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience".

Notice he has power "over the air". Could this light or star be simply in an area over the heads of those magi especially since they were the only ones who saw this light? If it had truly been a star, many others would have seen it. Not even Herod saw it.


Also what does the Bible say God did when he wanted the announcment of his son's birth to be known? Did he send a star? No. He actually sent his messengers the angels to announce this to "his people" not some astrologers that were not his people and that practiced things God did not approve.

Luke 2:8-14
Revised Standard Version (RSV)
The Shepherds and the Angels

8 And in that region there were shepherds out in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. 9 And an angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were filled with fear. 10 And the angel said to them, “Be not afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of a great joy which will come to all the people; 11 for to you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. 12 And this will be a sign for you: you will find a babe wrapped in swaddling cloths and lying in a manger.” 13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying,

14 “Glory to God in the highest,
and on earth peace among men with whom he is pleased!”[a]

This is how God spoke to his people. Not by some star that clearly led these astrologers to Herod who wanted Jesus dead. Again these were the only people that ever saw this star. Not even God's people had any sight of this light and if one thinks this was from God, it would have been shown cleary to them. It was not.

Originally posted by galveston75
A couple more points that one needs to consider.

Could satan be the one behind this star or light? Satan is spoken of here as being able to do this:

2 Thessalonians 2:9-10
Revised Standard Version (RSV)

9 "The coming of the lawless one by the activity of Satan will be with all power and with pretended (((((signs and wonders)))))), 10 and with ...[text shortened]... light and if one thinks this was from God, it would have been shown cleary to them. It was not.

Perhaps the star the Magi saw that lighted up the sky were God's angels coming down from heaven to witness the birth of the baby Jesus. Angels are sometimes spoken of as stars in scripture.

Originally posted by galveston75
No I don't know. And you wonder why I use the word "fool" when I'm answering you with your post?

And for your information I had read that long before Manny posted it.

How do you "read a video" Galveston? Are you being deliberately obtuse? The link in post 2 is a video clip.

For the fourth time, did you watch the video?

PS Thanks for calling "me" a fool repeatedly, do you know what the scriptures says about those who do this?

Originally posted by galveston75
Again YOU ARE NOT READING WHAT I'VE SAID as usual and you always add nonsence statements that I never said and continually try this deferring of the actual subject.
So where did I ever say they were using astrology in finding Jesus????????????????????????????????????????????????? NO WHERE DUDE!!!!!!
You know I don't really care what you believe or why you believe it, period!

Try to keep calm Galveston.

Here is what you said on page 5 post 6:

"Also these Magi or astrologers were not brought or summond by God.
God disapproves of astrology and would not be interested in these men at all for any reason"

Originally posted by menace71
Agreed that is what it seemed like that your insinuating that Satan sent the star but I think the scriptures do not give that line thought credence. It's feasible to think however that Herod was used by Satan and his fear and pride of a potential rival made him commit acts of horror as in the slaying of all of the Children 2 & under. Lastly in Genesis God s ...[text shortened]... to help mark time. The scriptures teach that God alone controls the heavens

Manny


Manny

Error

Originally posted by galveston75
A couple more points that one needs to consider.

Could satan be the one behind this star or light? Satan is spoken of here as being able to do this:

2 Thessalonians 2:9-10
Revised Standard Version (RSV)

9 "The coming of the lawless one by the activity of Satan will be with all power and with pretended (((((signs and wonders)))))), 10 and with ...[text shortened]... light and if one thinks this was from God, it would have been shown cleary to them. It was not.

Galveston, before I even bother to refute the rest of the scriptures you use here to support your conjecture over the nature of the star of Bethlehem and the first coming of Christ, you should be aware that 2 Thessalonians 2,9 is referring to the second coming of Christ not the first. You can't just cherry pick scriptures to support the JW view of the Bible, it's not on.

You ought to read the whole chapter especially verse 1 where Paul explicitly says "now concerning the coming of Christ" -- are you suggesting that Paul is writing to the Thessalonians many years after Christ's execution to advise them on the star of Bethlehem?

Originally posted by galveston75
Again YOU ARE NOT READING WHAT I'VE SAID as usual and you always add nonsence statements that I never said and continually try this deferring of the actual subject.
So where did I ever say they were using astrology in finding Jesus????????????????????????????????????????????????? NO WHERE DUDE!!!!!!
You know I don't really care what you believe or why you believe it, period!

Galveston, on a related issues which I've brought up several times now:

1) Can you explain why the Magi "worshiped the Christ". This was real worship as explicitly called out in 2 Gospels.

2) They also let him prophetic gifts: gold indicating his kingship, frankincense indicating his priesthood and myrrh indicating his death.

3) They were divinely spoken to by god through a dream and instructed not to return to Herod. They obeyed this instruction.

When you look at these scriptural facts how is it more likely to make an assumption that Satan was manipulating the Magi and not god?

Originally posted by divegeester
Try to keep calm Galveston.

Here is what you said on page 5 post 6:

[b]"Also these Magi or astrologers were not brought or summond by God.
God disapproves of astrology and would not be interested in these men at all for any reason"[/b]

"Also these Magi or astrologers were not brought or summond by God.
God disapproves of astrology and would not be interested in these men at all for any reason"


Where does this say they were using astrology to find Jesus? Again you are slyishly putting words into something I did not say. Why do you continue to do this?

Originally posted by divegeester
Galveston, before I even bother to refute the rest of the scriptures you use here to support your conjecture over the nature of the star of Bethlehem and the first coming of Christ, you should be aware that 2 Thessalonians 2,9 is referring to the second coming of Christ not the first. You can't just cherry pick scriptures to support the JW view of the Bi ...[text shortened]... o the Thessalonians many years after Christ's execution to advise them on the star of Bethlehem?

You obviously are missing the point of why I quoted that scripture. I know clearly when that scripture is applied but I was hoping you'd get the point that satan has the power and ability to use "signs" to use against humans to do his wicked deeds as he did with the star or light with the magi. Sorry you missed that.

Originally posted by divegeester
Galveston, on a related issues which I've brought up several times now:

1) Can you explain why the Magi "worshiped the Christ". This was real worship as explicitly called out in 2 Gospels.

2) They also let him prophetic gifts: gold indicating his kingship, frankincense indicating his priesthood and myrrh indicating his death.

3) They were divin ...[text shortened]... b] how is it more likely to make an assumption that Satan was manipulating the Magi and not god?

Because they wanted too.....

So the obvious question then would be do you seriously think God directed them to do all of these things because it was foretold to happen?

If this is your thought then you'd have to agree that "all" the bad things the bible foretold and has happened, God caused them in order that his prophecies would come true. Really? Is this your opinion?

Originally posted by RJHinds
Perhaps the star the Magi saw that lighted up the sky were God's angels coming down from heaven to witness the birth of the baby Jesus. Angels are sometimes spoken of as stars in scripture.

Then the Bible would have called this light an angel, not a star.
Also why didn't the magi follow it to the shephards in the field if this star was an angel?
This star never went to or was seen by God's people and no one in the fields said anything about a star at anytime.

Originally posted by divegeester
How do you "read a video" Galveston? Are you being deliberately obtuse? The link in post 2 is a video clip.

[b]For the fourth time, did you watch the video?

PS Thanks for calling "me" a fool repeatedly, do you know what the scriptures says about those who do this?[/b]

Excuse me for the typo........ So now for the second time yes I did SEE the video. I would think you would have caught that in my previous answer.