Study your Bible to know who God is.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Look at the 14th word in the scripture verse Matthew 28:19.
It says "name" plain as day.

Soooooooooo what is it's name? The name Jehovah has only been used for the Father, never the son. The name Jesus has only been used for the son. Where is the name given to the HS? Just because "YOU THINK" this JAH or YAH refers to the HS means nothing. It's just your opinion and one with NO proof at all.
I ask for one simple scripture in your Bible that show's the Holy Spirit is God indeed and one that should have a name as the other 2 parts do and still after months of silly answers you have no proof.
I'd suggest you study your Bible with deep prayer to whatever God you worship and get the right answers.....

Originally posted by jaywill

1. who formed the trinity - emptiness

The Father is called [b]"Eternal Father" (Isa. 9:6) . Who formed the Father ?

The Holy Spirit is called "the eternal Spirit" (Heb.11:14) Who formed the Holy Spirit ?

The Son has not beginning of days nor end of life (Heb. 7:3) .

Who formed to Father, Son, and Holy Sp g God.

And the Jehovah's Witnesses will see to it that you never do.[/b]

Nope, Jesus is called in a prophetic sense, the eternal father, can you point to a
single scripture where Jesus terms himself, father, no i didn't think so, your making
it up, AGAIN, trying to impose YOUR DOGMA, onto scripture.

you have no idea of the different uses of the term spirit in scripture, in fact, it was
pointed out to you a while back, what they were, you refused to read them because
it contradicted, YOUR DOGMA.

The son had a beginning, he was the FIRST-BORN of CREATION, a created entity,
that is part of creation making your latest assertion, a lie.

next question???, you couldn't even honestly answer the first ones, no i think ive
heard quite enough, thank you very much, one persistent lie after another,
sufficient for each day is its own badness, as the Christ stated.

Originally posted by galveston75
Soooooooooo what is it's name? The name Jehovah has only been used for the Father, never the son. The name Jesus has only been used for the son. Where is the name given to the HS? Just because "YOU THINK" this JAH or YAH refers to the HS means nothing. It's just your opinion and one with NO proof at all.
I ask for one simple scripture in your Bible t ...[text shortened]... udy your Bible with deep prayer to whatever God you worship and get the right answers.....

We have been giving you the right answers. Perhaps you don't want to
believe the truth. It is easier to believe a lie and not think for yourself.

Originally posted by RJHinds
We have been giving you the right answers. Perhaps you don't want to
believe the truth. It is easier to believe a lie and not think for yourself.

no he has been subject to nothing but mere opinion, no reason, nothingness.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Nope, Jesus is called in a prophetic sense, the eternal father, can you point to a
single scripture where Jesus terms himself, father, no i didn't think so, your making
it up, AGAIN, trying to impose YOUR DOGMA, onto scripture.

you have no idea of the different uses of the term spirit in scripture, in fact, it was
pointed out to you a while sistent lie after another, sufficient for
each day is its own badness, as the Christ stated.

Nope, Jesus is called in a prophetic sense, the eternal father, can you point to a single scripture where Jesus terms himself, father, no i didn't think so, your making it up, AGAIN, trying to impose YOUR DOGMA, onto scripture.

Repetition of previous discussion in by-gone months ( and now probably years) is not profitable to me with the same person.

But the word of Jesus Christ is the entire Bible, not just the "red letters".

Isaiah 9:6 is the word of Jesus Christ. And if the child is called Mighty God it must be because He IS that which He is called.

And if the SON given is called "Eternal Father" it surely is because He IS that which He is called.

And if this one is called WONDERFUL it must mean that He is WONDERFUL, FULL of WONDER, astounding, unusual.

And if He is called Prince of Peace, guess what? It must be because He is indeed the Prince of Peace.

I only have to believe what it SAYS. I do not have to be able to explain the WONDERFUL Robbie. I only have to BELIEVE the WONDERFUL.

Let me say that again because you probably forgot already. I do not have to be able to EXPLAIN that WONDERFUL One. I only have to BELIEVE in the WONDERFUL ONE.

He is "UNTO US". He is for our enjoyment, our experience, and our salvation.

you have no idea of the different uses of the term spirit in scripture, in fact, it was
pointed out to you a while back, what they were, you refused to read them because it contradicted, YOUR DOGMA.

"NOW THE LORD IS THE SPIRIT" (2 Cor. 3:17) [/b]

You go and figure out who is "the Lord" in Second Corinthians.
You ascertain who is "the Spirit" in Second Corinthians.

I have debated these points before.

The son had a beginning, he was the FIRST-BORN of CREATION, a created entity,
that is part of creation making your latest assertion, a lie.

We've been through that debate before also.
I will only repeat that debate is someone else on the board desires to see my response who has not seen it before.

Originally posted by jaywill

Nope, Jesus is called in a prophetic sense, the eternal father, can you point to a single scripture where Jesus terms himself, father, no i didn't think so, your making it up, AGAIN, trying to impose YOUR DOGMA, onto scripture.

Repetition of previous discussion in by-gone months ( and now probably years) is not profitable to me with th s someone else on the board desires to see my response who has not seen it before.

I will only repeat that debate is someone else on the board desires to see my response
who has not seen it before.

The term is of creation, you cannot escape it. Desire it?, man, please have
mercy on us.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I will only repeat that debate is someone else on the board desires to see my response
who has not seen it before.

The term is [b]of creation, you cannot escape it. Desire it?, man, please have
mercy on us.[/b]

It doesn't mean as Arius taught, that the first THING created before all the angels and the universe was the Son.

Because He is God, when He became FLESH (John 1:14), He made that created item, flesh, the most important and preeminent created matter in the universe.

Because God became man, He was firstborn of all creation.

John 1:1, 14

Originally posted by jaywill
It doesn't mean as Arius taught, that the first THING created before all the angels and the universe was the Son.

Because He is God, when He became FLESH [b](John 1:14), He made that created item, flesh, the most important and preeminent created matter in the universe.

Because God became man, He was firstborn of all creation.

John 1:1, 14 [/b]

Putting all of your pretensions and dogma aside, shall we look, at the original Greek
term, shall we?, it should after all be interesting to find out what the Bible actually
states, shouldn't it.

Col 1:15 reads from the Greek text, os estin eikon tou theou tou aoratou prototokos
pases ktiseos, literally, who is image of God, invisible, first-born, of all
creation.

Tell me Jay, does the Greek genitive article, 'of', make Jesus part of creation or
distinct from it. Forget your predetermined view as to the nature of Christ, what
does the Greek text actually say.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no he has been subject to nothing but mere opinion, no reason, nothingness.

No reason? Nothingness? You can't be serious, jaywill and I have given
both of you all the evidence with reason that any honest person could
possibly need. I believe Dasa should jump on both of you for your
dishonesty. The Watchtower Society claim to be a theocracy and that
word is no where to be found in the Holy Bible. So if the trinity is a
lie because it is no where to be found in the Holy Bible then the
Watchtower Society's claim to be a theocracy is a lie because it also
is no where to be found in the Holy Bible. You guys are ridiculous.

Originally posted by galveston75
People worship many things. But the Bible tells us that there is only one TRUE God. He created everything in heaven and on earth. Because he gave us life, he is the only One we should worship.—1 Corinthians 8:5, 6; Revelation 4:11.


God has many titles but has only one name. That name is JEHOVAH. In most Bibles, God's name has been removed and has ...[text shortened]... also tells us about his purpose and what he wants us to do.—Amos 3:7; 2 Timothy 3:16, 17.

The premise of this thread is stated to be "Study your Bible to know who God is."

This thread suggests that this premise is false.

Originally posted by RJHinds
We have been giving you the right answers. Perhaps you don't want to
believe the truth. It is easier to believe a lie and not think for yourself.

Oh here we go again. Deflecting what you can't prove by scripture. Anyway the subject this posting is about is getting to know who God is and of course who he isn't.
The Bible says he is (((( 1 )))) God. Not 3 in 1 some mutated Godhead thingy that no one can explain.

http://www.watchtower.org/e/ti/article_04.htm

Read with your spiritual eyes open and see your trinty for what it is.............

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Putting all of your pretensions and dogma aside, shall we look, at the original Greek
term, shall we?, it should after all be interesting to find out what the Bible actually
states, shouldn't it.

Col 1:15 reads from the Greek text, os estin eikon tou theou tou aoratou prototokos
[b]pases ktiseos, literally, who is image of God, invisible ...[text shortened]... your predetermined view as to the nature of Christ, what
does the Greek text actually say.[/b]

Where are you getting this from? Be honest now, for I know you do not
know Koine Greek and there is no Greek word for "of" in that verse. The
Greek word that some translate as "of all" can also be translated "over all"
according to Koine Greek scholars.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Putting all of your pretensions and dogma aside, shall we look, at the original Greek
term, shall we?, it should after all be interesting to find out what the Bible actually
states, shouldn't it.

Col 1:15 reads from the Greek text, os estin eikon tou theou tou aoratou prototokos
[b]pases ktiseos, literally, who is image of God, invisible your predetermined view as to the nature of Christ, what
does the Greek text actually say.[/b]

Tell me Jay, does the Greek genitive article, 'of', make Jesus part of creation or distinct from it. Forget your predetermined view as to the nature of Christ, what
does the Greek text actually say.

I have no argument with Firstborn "OF" (genitive) all creation.

Christ as God is the Creator. However, as man, sharing the created blood and flesh (Heb. 2:14) , He is part of creation.

Blood is a created item of God.
Flesh is a created item of God.
Man is a created item of God - (Gen 1:26,27)

Can it mean that Christ as a created man was created FIRST before all things ?
No it cannot. God created many things before He created man on the sixth day.

Can it mean that Christ was a created spiritual being?
Not unless we charge the John 1:1 with being an error.

The Word was with God and the Word WAS God.
John does not say that the WORD was CREATED by God.
John says that the WORD WAS GOD.
God is not created.

But man is created. And down in John 1:14 it says "And the Word became flesh". God JOINED His creation. God put on created flesh and blood. God was incarnated to become a man.

Could Paul be contradicting John then ?
Could Paul be saying that the spirit being Firstborn was created before any other item in the universe was created ?

I would belive that IF John had written that "In the beginning was God, and God created the Word." But that is NOT what John wrote. John wrote that, in the beginning the Word was with God and WAS God.

John was a disciple before Paul was. Paul should be following the original apostles in the basics of WHO Christ is.

John and Paul must be saying the same thing.

John says about the Word - "All things came into being through Him [the Word], and apart from HIm not one thing came into being which has come into being." (John 1:3)

Is there a thing which has come into being apart from the Word, Who became flesh in verse 14, Christ ? John says "not ONE THING ... not ONE THING CAME INTO BEING WHICH HAS COME INTO BEING."

We cannot understand John to mean that "not one thing except the Word Himself". That will not work because the Word was God. As long as God was the Word was.

So Paul must be saying the same thing, that Christ is God through whom thrones, principalities, things visible and invisible were created.

"Who is the image of the invisible God, the Firstborn of all creation, BECAUSE ..."

Why BECAUSE ? Why is Christ the Firstborn of all creation ?

"BECAUSE ... in Him all things were created, in the heavens and on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thones or lordships rulers or authorities; all things have been ceated throgh Him and unto Him." (Col. 1:16)

If the Word was God, as the elder apostle John taught, and all things came into being through Him, then Paul's word must say the same. Christ is the Firstborn of all creation because through power of His person all things came into being and were created.

I said before that the whole Bible is the word of Christ and not just the "red letters".

The word of God says:

"Thus says JEHOVAH the King of Israel, and his [Israel's] Redeemer, JEHOVAH of hosts,

I am the First and I am the Last, And apart from Me there is no God." (Isaiah 44:6)

QUESTION: Is the WORD of John 1:1 another god "APART" from JEHOVAH ? Is the WORD of John 1:1 another GOD who Jehovah created APART from Himself ?

ANSWER: No. Apart from Jehovah there is no God. The WORD, who was with God and was God (John 1:1) is not another created god apart from JEHOVAH.

"You are My witnesses, declares Jehovah, ... understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, NEITHER WILL THERE BE ANY AFTER ME. I, even I, am Jehovah." (See Isaiah 43:10,11)


QUESTION: Could Christ the Firstborn of all creation be ANOTHER god who was formed apart from Jehovah, ether before or after Jehovah ?

ANSWER: No. Before Jehovah there was no God formed. Neither AFTER Jehovah was any God formed - (Isaiah 43:10,11) .

Jehovah God asks man and Himself says that He knows of NO OTHER GOD.

"And you are My witnesses. Is there a God besides Me? Or is there any [other] Rock? I DO NOT KNOW OF [ANY]" (Isaiah 44:8)

Jehovah God knows of no other God.
No other God was formed either before Jehovah or after Jehovah.
He knows of no other God.
He knows of no other "Rock".

The WORD which was with God WAS God. And through the Word all things came into being. Not one thing came into being apart from the Word Who was God.

So the ancient brothers in dealing with these very profound truths are excused for arriving at a term - Triune God or Trinity. We can both empathize with them and understand them in the need to defend against the attacks against revelation by the natural proud mind of fallen man who trusts in his own intellect.

Jehovah is the First and the Last. And Christ declares He is the First and the Last.

Compare Isaiah 44:6 and Revelation 1:17.

Originally posted by galveston75
http://www.watchtower.org/e/ti/article_04.htm

Read with your spiritual eyes open and see your trinty for what it is.............

Interesting how, in a thread about reading the Bible to learn about God, you then point people to your denominations website.
It is quite clear from this thread so far that either:
1. Some of the most dogmatic Christians, do not actually study their Bibles.
or
2. Studying your Bible is an ineffective method for many people.

Originally posted by jaywill

Tell me Jay, does the Greek genitive article, 'of', make Jesus part of creation or distinct from it. Forget your predetermined view as to the nature of Christ, what
does the Greek text actually say.

I have no argument with Firstborn [b]"OF" (genitive) all creation.

Christ as God is the Creator. However, as m ...[text shortened]... ast.

Compare Isaiah 44:6 and Revelation 1:17.[/b]

I am uninterested in that, will you please answer the question, does the verse state that Christ is part of, or not a part of creation, according to the Greek text.