05 Dec 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeAgain it is neither. RBHILL believes that those who are "born again" can commit any sin and they will still remain saved. "Any sin" is just that; he will tell you that everybody sins and all sins are equally bad. Therefore, what matters is not what sins people commit so far as they're ultimate salvation, but only whether they are "born again" or not. The "born again" child mass murderer will go to Heaven; the non-"born again" saint will not.
Then it is a strawman on your part ..... or a misconception .... oh well.
05 Dec 05
1 edit
Finally, suicide defies the love we owe God. Sure, we all face the tough times, hardships, and sufferings. However, we are called to place ourselves in the hands of God who will never abandon us, but see us safely through this life. The words of the "Our Father" — "thy will be done" — must be real for us. To commit suicide is to reject His "lordship" in our life.
http://www.catholicherald.com/saunders/03ws/ws030605.htm
The jumpers obviously rejected His "lordship".
05 Dec 05
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesThanks for the link, Dear Doctor.
It is, even objectively.
http://www.catholicherald.com/saunders/03ws/ws030605.htm
http://www.catholicherald.com/saunders/03ws/ws030605.htm
"Therefore, objectively, suicide is a mortal sin. (Moreover, to help someone commit suicide is also a mortal sin.) Here though we must remember that for a sin to be mortal and cost someone salvation, the objective action must be grave or serious matter (which in this case the taking of one's own life is); the person must have an informed intellect (know that this is wrong); and the person must give full consent of the will (intend to commit this action). In the case of suicide, a person may not have given full consent of the will. Fear, force, ignorance, habit, passion and psychological problems can impede the exercise of the will so that a person may not be fully responsible or even responsible at all for an action. Here again the Catechism states, "Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide" (no. 2282). "
http://www.catholicherald.com/saunders/03ws/ws030605.htm
05 Dec 05
2 edits
Originally posted by ivanhoeDescribe how a person could commit suicide without falling under one of these exceptions.
In the case of suicide, a person may not have given full consent of the will. Fear, force, ignorance, habit, passion and psychological problems can impede the exercise of the will so that a person may not be fully responsible or even responsible at all for an action. Here again the Catechism states, "Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear ...[text shortened]... ering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide" (no. 2282). "
For that matter, describe how a person could commit any sin without falling under one of these exception.
05 Dec 05
Originally posted by no1marauderIs the marauder correct, RBHILL ?
Again it is neither. RBHILL believes that those who are "born again" can commit any sin and they will still remain saved. "Any sin" is just that; he will tell you that everybody sins and all sins are equally bad. Therefore, what matters is not what sins people commit so far as they're ultimate salvation, but only whether they are "born again" or n ...[text shortened]... The "born again" child mass murderer will go to Heaven; the non-"born again" saint will not.
05 Dec 05
1 edit
Originally posted by ivanhoeSo, is it your understanding that the Catechism's tenets are not severally true in a literal interpretation? That is, severally, they are either meaningless or only metaphorically true?
You read and interprete the Cathechism like a strict fundamentalist reads and interpretes Scripture.
05 Dec 05
Originally posted by no1marauderI sometimes wonder if you are from Mars. Please read the entire article and please put things in perspective. It usually helps .....
Finally, suicide defies the love we owe God. Sure, we all face the tough times, hardships, and sufferings. However, we are called to place ourselves in the hands of God who will never abandon us, but see us safely through this life. The words of the "Our Father" — "thy will be done" — must be real for us. To commit suicide is to reject His "lordship ...[text shortened]... rald.com/saunders/03ws/ws030605.htm
The jumpers obviously rejected His "lordship".
Isn't what you are doing "Quoting Out Of Context" with the obvious intent of changing what the author is trying to communicate ?
05 Dec 05
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesWrong conclusion. False dichotomy. You shouldn't read the Cathechism in a legalistic way.
So, is it your understanding that the Catechism's tenets are not severally true in a literal interpretation? That is, severally, they are either meaningless or only metaphorically true?