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Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Do you personally identify no disparity between the Jesus of the Gospels and the 'wrath of the Lamb?'
Do you personally identify no disparity between the Jesus of the Gospels and the 'wrath of the Lamb?'
No I see no disparity. I see a difference of activity.
But is the difference totally without any expectation from the Gospels?
John the Baptist said that the One coming after him would baptise with the Holy Spirit and with fire. The fire of that verse, I take not to be tongues of fire as at Pentacost, but the fire of judgment into which Christ will plunged His enemies.
" I baptize you in water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is stronger than I, ... He Himself will baptize you in the Holy Spirit and fire.
Whose winnowing fan is in His hand. And He will thoroughly cleanse His threshing floor and will gather His wheat into His barn, but the chaff He will burn up with unquenchable fire." (Matt. 3:11,12)
Are we then not given indication that judgment of unquenchable fire will be a part of His fulfilling God's decree?
The above saying of John should remind us of Armageddon in Revelation 14.
Also some of Christ's parables gave us heads up that violent vanquishing of His enemies would be the result of the end of His time of toleration. See the parable of the returning king. It concludes with this -
" However, these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me." (Luke 19:27)
Also the wheat is separated from the tares, which are collected into bundles and burnt up at His second coming.
" Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, Collect first the tares and bind them into bundles to burn them up but the wheat gather into my barn." (Matt. 13:30)
And the Lord's own interpretation of His words -
"And the enemy who sowed them [tares] is the devil, and the harvest is the consummation of the age, and the reapers are angels.
Therefore just as the tares are collected and burned up with fire, so will it be at the consummation of the age.
The Son of Man will send His angels, and they will collect out of His kingdom all the stumbling blocks and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. In that place there will be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.
then the righteous will shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear." (Matt. 13:39-43)
Don't places like this in the Gospel cause us to expect the wrath of the Redeemer is a part of His ending the age?
Originally posted by @sonshipLOL; you had this post pre-prepared and ready to post.
No I see no disparity. I see a difference of activity.
But is the difference totally without any expectation from the Gospels?
John the Baptist said that the One coming after him would baptise with the Holy Spirit and with fire. T this in the Gospel cause us to expect the wrath of the Redeemer is a part of His ending the age?
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02 May 18
Originally posted by @divegeesterAnd I sportingly triggered it.
LOL; you had this post pre-prepared and ready to post.
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02 May 18
Originally posted by @uzless
When did/does the thousand years end and what happens when the devil is released?
You seem to provide some answers yourself below.
When is he released ? I can only say after the thousand years.
For how long?
I do not know.
He will go out to deceive some who have been born during that time. Unbelievably, some who have such paradise environment provided to them by Christ will fall to the lying deception of the Slanderer anyway.
"And when the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison. And will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war. Their number is like that of the sand of the sea." (20:7,8)
If he is released for a short time, how long is that and how is he recaptured?
I don't know.
Has he been recaptured and if so, does he stay captured for eternity or just for another 1000 years?
Revelation 20 represents his last chance and his final destination.
"And the devil who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." (20:19)
In the new heaven and new earth to follow the final judgment there will no longer be a curse. All negative things contrary to the will of God are cleared up in the universe. And Jesus Christ has been mass produced as a standard model of God-man humanity.
"And there will be no longer a curse. And the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it (New Jerusalem), and His slaves will serve Him." (22:3)
All negative things including Satan will be under God's judgment.
The nations that were not deceived will walk in the light of the holy city New Jerusalem which consists of the sons of God.
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"He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time. "
Sometimes I wonder HOW in the world Satan should be released from this thousand year imprisonment. But his release serves a function. And God uses him to further clear up the universe even after the millennial kingdom.
It is evident that he will never change.
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02 May 18
It seems that fallen man has many, many excuses for not wanting God to be God. The final rebellion AFTER the millennial kingdom does demonstrate that
Abundance, Blessing, Longevity, Healing, Plenty, Peace may still all be swepted aside by some primal rebellion in God's creatures, some of whom , no matter WHAT ... will not have God's kingdom as their government.
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02 May 18
Originally posted by @sonshipWould you agree there is a noticeable lack of divine love in Revelation?
It seems that fallen man has many, many excuses for not wanting God to be God. The final rebellion AFTER the millennial kingdom does demonstrate that
Abundance, Blessing, Longevity, Healing, Plenty, Peace may still all be swepted aside by some primal rebellion in God's creatures, some of whom , no matter WHAT ... will not have God's kingdom as their government.
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Originally posted by @rajk999The Recovery Version of the New Testament with study notes will be very helpful to some.
Have you not already presented the opinion of Watchman Nee on Revelation?
What makes you think people want to hear more?
You will not only get Lee's and Nee's insight into the book. But you will also get the cream of the crop of good expositions prior to these two servants of God.
One of the services Watchman Nee performed for the church was to use his speed reading ability to read a great many books of the past. ( He could flip pages through a book very fast with swift reading comprehension and a somewhat photographic like memory). He then separated the inferior ones from the superior ones.
So aside from the light that God showed him, he also recommended from the past the better expositions of the Bible.
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Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Would you agree there is a noticeable lack of divine love in Revelation?
Would you agree there is a noticeable lack of divine love in Revelation?
Absolutely not.
But what you are impressed with in the book of Revelation has much to do with where you stand.
How could I POSSIBLY think there is no love in a book which concludes with a MARRAIGE of God and His people for eternity - an eternal romantic union of God and His redeemed.
Love - calls for putting down all that interferes with that loving relationship - like the lying Satan and his Antichrist.
Love - calls for justice.
Love is as strong as death.
Jealousy as cruel as Sheol. (Song of Solomon 8:6)
But from the standpoint of one who has yet, perhaps, to surrender to the redeeming salvation of Christ, that one may see only impending doom and gloom in Revelation. There is so much more than this.
I see the CLIMAX of divine love especially in chapters 21 and 22. But I also see it in chapters 2 and 3. And I see it in chapter 12 concerning the Universal Bright Woman and her children. Also in chapter 19 you have a wedding and a bride of Christ. That is all about LOVE.
It is possible that you only see wrath and judgment.
It is possible that that is all you notice in Revelation because your standing is right now under judgment and not in salvation.
Get saved, trusting Jesus for your Savior and Lord.
02 May 18
Originally posted by @sonshipYou didn't answer my questions. You've just tossed out a bunch of passages that aren't related to the direct questions at hand.When did/does the thousand years end and what happens when the devil is released?
You seem to provide some answers yourself below.
When is he released ? I can only say after the thousand years.
For how long?
I do not know.
He will go out to deceive some who have been born during that time. Unbelievably, some who have such paradi ...[text shortened]... up the universe even after the millennial kingdom.
It is evident that he will never change.
This is important because if the thousand years has already passed, the devil was released and then recaptured, then hey we have nothing to worry about
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Originally posted by @uzless
You didn't answer my questions. You've just tossed out a bunch of passages that aren't related to the direct questions at hand.
I answered your question.
You should have just made your point as a Preterist up front and not attempted to pass it in a stealthfully put question.
Preterism is a Christian eschatological view that interprets some (partial preterism) or all (full preterism) prophecies of the Bible as events which have already happened.
I suspected that you were concealing a point YOU wanted to make. You could have just made your point.
This is important because if the thousand years has already passed, the devil was released and then recaptured, then hey we have nothing to worry about
I do not believe we are currently in the millennial kingdom of a thousand years.
Peter says that the Devil is prowling around like a roaring lion in the church age. So then HOW could the devil be bound in a prison in that sense?
" Be sober; watch. Your adversary, the devil, as a roaring lion, walks about, seeking someone to devour.
Him withstand, being firm in your faith, knowing that the same sufferings are being accomplished among your brotherhood in the world." ( 1 Peter 5:8,9)
He was not in that prison in the Apostle Peter's day. And until today he is still causing problems to the Christians.
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02 May 18
Originally posted by @sonshipRejoicing at the destruction of God’s enemies doesn't seem very loving to me sonship.Would you agree there is a noticeable lack of divine love in Revelation?
Absolutely not.
But what you are impressed with in the book of Revelation has much to do with where you stand.
How could I POSSIBLY think there is no love in a book which concludes with a [b]MARRAIGE of God and His people for eternity - an eternal romantic ...[text shortened]... now under judgment and not in salvation.
Get saved, trusting Jesus for your Savior and Lord.[/b]
Rev 19:1-4 tells us about this massive praise gathering: “‘Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God, for true and just are his judgments. He has condemned the great prostitute who corrupted the earth by her adulteries. He has avenged on her the blood of his servants.’ And again they shouted: ‘Hallelujah! The smoke from her goes up for ever and ever.’ The twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God, who was seated on the throne. And they cried: ‘Amen, Hallelujah!’”
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02 May 18
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeGod is merciful but He also is just. I’ve read that one of the most sobering and frightening verses in the Bible is,
Rejoicing at the destruction of God’s enemies doesn't seem very loving to me sonship.
Rev 19:1-4 tells us about this massive praise gathering: “‘Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God, for true and just are his judgments. He has condemned the great prostitute who corrupted the earth by her adulteries. He has avenged on her th ...[text shortened]... fell down and worshiped God, who was seated on the throne. And they cried: ‘Amen, Hallelujah!’”
“If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.”
(2 Timothy 2:13)
I do wonder, though, if those who view that verse as sobering and frightening are interpreting it correctly.