Spirituality
06 Apr 13
06 Apr 13
1 edit
Abortion cannot be a black/white right/wrong issue, there are too many variables.
Basic human rights and social, fiscal equality should not be denied anyone. However a Christian church should be provided the right to choose not to marry any couple if they deem the marriage as impinging their religious code.
06 Apr 13
Originally posted by divegeesterTo my knowledge that right has never really come up for discussion. Has anyone to your knowledge suggested such a right could be denied?
However a Christian church should be provided the right to choose not to marry any couple if they deem the marriage as impinging their religious code.
The usual issue is whether or not the government recognizes gay marriage as a legal equivalent to heterosexual marriage.
I wonder whether or not a Christian Church that refuses to marry mixed race couples would be taken to court. Does anybody know?
I know that in the Anglican Church, the priest can refuse to marry a couple for various reasons, though I don't know if this can be challenged legally.
What are your views on whether or not a Church should be allowed to refused membership to certain races, or refuse to marry people based on race?
I know many Churches are sexist, and don't allow women to hold certain posts. Do you think this is a right Churches have, or do you think it could be challenged legally?
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06 Apr 13
Originally posted by sumydid"I determined that many Christians, like I said, are silent or even complicit because they feel like the worse things get, the quicker the end times will come upon us."
"They" are the Christians who sit on their couches and stay silent while the moral fiber of our society (my opinion only) crumbles.
"The rest of us" are the Christians that care enough about major social issues to stand up to not only the secularists, but our fellow Christians as well, when warranted.
The Pastor of my church wrote an article that incit ...[text shortened]... orse things get, the quicker the end times will come upon us. That conclusion concerns me.
One thing I haven't seen you address here about "... the worse things get, the quicker the end times will come upon us" is, is it TRUE that the worse things get, the sooner the end times will be?
I ask this because it seems to me that the best way to defeat this belief is to show that it is FALSE. Can you do that?
Originally posted by sumydidBelieve it or not, but there are many Christians who support gay marriage - not because they believe that it will help "usher in the End Time", but because they believe that homosexuals should be afforded that basic right. Not all Christians are bigots - even if you find that disconcerting.
Here in the USA, there is a major, heated, disagreement between Liberals/Progressives and Conservatives/Traditionalists. That major disagreement centers around social behavior and values. The hottest topics within that category are abortion-on-demand, and gay marriage.
Forget all the points and counterpoints on both sides; I am focused on something else a blind eye to the evils of this world in order to somehow hasten the end times.
From what I can tell, by and large the dividing line is belief in the teachings of Jesus vs. belief in the teachings of the OT and Paul.
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06 Apr 13
Originally posted by sumydidI understand exactly where you are coming from. I felt the same way for some time. I have been to Tea Party meetings, etc...but as I presented at those meetings, if God is not in this, it is in vain. I know that many Christians are passive, but I am not sure about speeding up the end times. I think they vote and feel helpless doing anything else. The problems in this country are massive, there is an agenda, but the battle is very spiritual.
Here in the USA, there is a major, heated, disagreement between Liberals/Progressives and Conservatives/Traditionalists. That major disagreement centers around social behavior and values. The hottest topics within that category are abortion-on-demand, and gay marriage.
Forget all the points and counterpoints on both sides; I am focused on something else ...[text shortened]... a blind eye to the evils of this world in order to somehow hasten the end times.
I always go back to this verse
2 Chron 7:13-15
When I shut up heaven and there is no rain, or command the locusts to devour the land, or send pestilence among My people, 14 if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.
NKJV..
..and I am not even certain if it applies to the whole country, I think he says "my people"..
Is Christianity so far in left field? I am afraid so. So in my opine, I think Christians need to return to their foundational principles, their first love, if you will. But even more, to dig into the bible, establish a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and question every thing they are taught. Far too many Christians are in a rut, they go to a church and let the Pastor think for them. The bible tells us to "eat" God's word, but many Christians have it processed and served to them.
I believe the doctrines taught in many churches today can get a person brought to salvation, but the doctrines themselves are merely words from men, traditions, and not words of God with real power. But as I said, there is enough in there to get one "born anew", but little else. No growth, no power. Read again the book of Acts and see how these people turned the world upside down. I don't see this happening today....
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06 Apr 13
Originally posted by checkbaiterDo you think being uninvolved in preventing evil will help hasten the end times and therefore should be the policy of Christians? I asked sumydid a similar question but he seems to be gone for a while.
I understand exactly where you are coming from. I felt the same way for some time. I have been to Tea Party meetings, etc...but as I presented at those meetings, if God is not in this, it is in vain. I know that many Christians are passive, but I am not sure about speeding up the end times. I think they vote and feel helpless doing anything else. The pro ...[text shortened]... see how these people turned the world upside down. I don't see this happening today....
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06 Apr 13
Originally posted by JS357I don't think there is anything we can do to "hasten" the end times. We do not know what God has planned as far as times. It is a foolish concept that a human can hasten what God has in His plans.
Do you think being uninvolved in preventing evil will help hasten the end times and therefore should be the policy of Christians? I asked sumydid a similar question but he seems to be gone for a while.
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06 Apr 13
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Originally posted by checkbaiterThanks for the reply. I see reports of people wanting to ship red heifers to Israel to help fulfill a prophesy. This doesn't exactly amount to "hastening" the end, and it isn't doing any harm to anyone as far as I know, but it's the same mind-set.
I don't think there is anything we can do to "hasten" the end times. We do not know what God has planned as far as times. It is a foolish concept that a human can hasten what God has in His plans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_heifer
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06 Apr 13
Originally posted by JS357Unbelievable! No, no harm, just strengthens my response to sumydid..
Thanks for the reply. I see reports of people wanting to ship red heifers to Israel to help fulfill a prophesy. This doesn't exactly amount to "hastening" the end, and it isn't doing any harm to anyone as far as I know, but it's the same mind-set.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_heifer
06 Apr 13
Originally posted by caissad4We have too many laws now. That is the result of the left not the right. The right just want freedom and for everyone to have moral values, but evil and murder can not just be allowed to increase to its maximum potential. So for the good of society, the "religious or non-religious left" must not be allowed to just do as they please. We Christians seem to be the only restraining force against the forces of evil in this world.
It is the Religious Right which inflicts their "values" upon others. There is no "Religious Left".
Who is this 'we" you speak of ? 🙄🙄
06 Apr 13
Originally posted by LemonJelloIt is true that Christian Churches today are not filled with people with the wisdom of Solomon.
Why exactly should every single Christian have the same view on a complicated, multifaceted topic such as abortion? That's absurd. That's the type of black & white thinking that stunts development and progress. If you're actually interested in resolution of such difficult topics, you should value each individual's quest to evaluate the topic honestly and ...[text shortened]... orts of considerations have no business cluttering up discussions concerning public policy.
06 Apr 13
Originally posted by vistesdI am against making a law that says two men can get married. If two men want to live together, then that is fine with me. Like I said before, we have too many laws already.
I think that religious people across the board—and non-religious people—ought to involve themselves in the social discourse, based on reasoned argument. However, you might consider that some people would (and logically could) switch the “liberal/progressive” and “conservative/traditionalist” labels as you have them here—and that not everything that “conserv ...[text shortened]... iberal/progressives” on that very issue (and many do so from a so-called Christian perspective).
06 Apr 13
Originally posted by RJHindsI think the idea is to remove a law that prevents this kind of union. Would that then gain your support?
I am against making a law that says two men can get married. If two men want to live together, then that is fine with me. Like I said before, we have too many laws already.
06 Apr 13
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Originally posted by twhitehead[/b]The Roman Emperor Constantine had to force the Christians of his day to get together and agree on some basic doctrines because many false teachers continually entered the Church and brought in their destructive heresies as Peter pointed out in the verse below.
I come from a small town in Zambia population 100,000 approx. If I recall correctly, there were 40 Christian denominations 30 years ago. Presumably there are more now.
If people can't even agree on the very basics of their religion enough to worship together what chance is there that they will agree on an issue like abortion?
[b]And if another church . However I don't think this is a major factor in keeping Churches out of politics.
But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.
(2 Peter 2:1-3 NKJV)
But this continued as was pointed out by the Priest Martin Luthur and has contiuned to this very day.