The adversary is within

@moonbus said
So why did a loving Father banish his children from paradise because one of them disobeyed once? And why did that loving Father allow a serpent into paradise in the first place? It makes no sense. Not as literal history, anyway. It might make some sort of sense as an allegory. But then, of course, so do Grimm's Fairy Tales--which is the jumping off point for the OP.

Maybe it is part of a bet made with Satan, who knows. Hey God, I bet I can make your new creation sin and worship me instead of you ... . Like the Job story where Satan wanted to test Jobs loyalty and faith and God allowed it. This is why I gravitate to the likelihood that there are millions of human or human-like species all over the universe and we are simply pawns for the big beings who move us around, after death. Life and death are just small in comparison to the big picture, and our time of 70 yrs is nothing for them.

@fmf said
"There is no being called "Satan".

No being is leading a "rebellion" and there are no "willing accomplices" etc.

It's all metaphor wrapped up in a gruesome fairytale intended for superstitious minds.

None of that.

The adversary is within."

Thoughts?

Largely agree.

There are some external adversaries, but the main goal is to tame one's own mind.

@pb1022 said
Wow. You totally don’t get the New Testament or the New Covenant.

What was the purpose of Jesus Christ’s sacrifice on the cross?

Really a rhetorical question as you’ve made your position clear.

Jesus Christ, according to you, died for everyone’s past sins.

And past refers to the time before someone accepts and believes in Jesus Christ.

But an atheist who rejects Christ doesn’t have that past as a reference point.

So it’s actually disadvantageous for someone to accept and believe in Christ because, according to your false doctrine, all their future sins count against them.

An atheist doesn’t have that problem.

So under your false doctrine, it’s better to remain an atheist or to accept and believe in Jesus Christ two seconds before you die so you don’t have time to commit a sin.

Do you see how nonsensical and ridiculous your false doctrine is?

And this is just one of many contradictions and absurdities in it.

@pb1022 said
So it’s actually disadvantageous for someone to accept and believe in Christ

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. (2 Peter 2:20-21 KJV)

Peter is addressing saved born-again Christian Saints
Those who are overcome by sin
Their end is worse than the beginning
It is better then did not know Christ ..

WOW !!

By the way Jesus said the same thing, and Paul too
Let me know if you want the references.

@rajk999 said
[i]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered un ...[text shortened]... sin
Their end is worse than the beginning
It is better then did not know Christ ..

WOW !! [/b]

Knowledge is not belief.

One is not saved by knowledge of Jesus Christ.

One is saved by belief in Jesus Christ.

You’re confusing head knowledge with heart belief.

@divegeester said
This really is just a load of your usual faith speak KellyJay, and your analogy of a mother telling their child not to put their hand in the oven is a risible attempt to deflect from the doctrine and ideology of a preconceived and created hell. Would a mother create an oven for the sole purpose of burning some of her children alive for eternity? It’s nonsense.

Furthe ...[text shortened]... to accompany the devil in his plight.

Further again, why is this eternal suffering kept secret?

Nothing is kept secret, denying it, rejecting it doesn’t make it go away. Calling it faith speech doesn’t alter it comes out of scripture either making it one more part of the Bible you reject.

@pb1022 said
Knowledge is not belief.

One is not saved by knowledge of Jesus Christ.

One is saved by belief in Jesus Christ.

You’re confusing head knowledge with heart belief.

Well that is between you and Peter and Christ.
I am not confusing anything.
The bible is clear. Your church preaches lies.

@josephw said
When did the argument for the existence of the Abrahamic God start?

We're arguing/debating about the existence of a creator. I point to that which exists as evidence for a creator, but you have nothing to point at to support your argument that God doesn't exist, or even that what exists supports your claim of ignorance of God's existence.

Only nothing comes from nothing. If that is true we are now speaking about a cause for everything that cannot be from nothing.

If you agree with this then there is more, if you don’t agree please state your objection.

@rajk999 said
Well that is between you and Peter and Christ.
I am not confusing anything.
The bible is clear. Your church preaches lies.

You certainly are confusing knowledge and belief. They’re not the same.

@pb1022 said
You certainly are confusing knowledge and belief. They’re not the same.

One good day you will surely get you chance to ask Peter what he meant and why he is confused about knowledge and belief. You can tell him the difference. You might have to shout because he will be walking up into the kingdom of God while you and your false church, taking the down ramp to God knows where.

@rajk999 said
One good day you will surely get you chance to ask Peter what he meant and why he is confused about knowledge and belief. You can tell him the difference. You might have to shout because he will be walking up into the kingdom of God while you and your false church, taking the down ramp to God knows where.

I thought in your false doctrine Jesus Christ determined who was saved and who wasn’t.

Looks like you’re taking that authority away from Him and claiming it for yourself.

Typical of your judgmental arrogance.

@moonbus

Cut to the chase: God put the serpent in the Garden. God created evil, on day 2, before Adam.

With God put the serpent in the garden, I could say, you might say that.

He told Adam to GUARD the garden.
And he vested authority in Adam and told him what NOT tot do.

Okay.
I can go along with that.

God created evil?
Even you might say that.
But I see it more that evil is the absence of good.

But it was occasioned by a created being who decided out of his perfection to be like God. The only way he could be like God in that sense he wanted was to be a nemesis.

And God created that being.

Anyway, your excuse is like ADam saying "The woman that you gave me - its her fault."

@moonbus said
So why did a loving Father banish his children from paradise because one of them disobeyed once?

Correction; both disobeyed.

Ok, to answer your question; assuming you won't go off on me because you think I'm nuts for believing the creation account given in Genesis, I'll give it my best shot. Please try not to let your eyes glaze over because I realize how difficult it is for someone to accept bibliology as credible.

A being of infinite perfection. The only one of His kind. Finishes creating everything out of nothing. It is perfect. Unblemished, no rot, no decay and no death anywhere.

Why? Because every molecule was in complete and perfect harmony with everything that was made. Difficult to imagine since all we've ever seen is in direct contradiction to that picture.

Then of a sudden a will emerges that pits itself against the will of God, the creator.

How then does that effect the whole of creation given the fact that the creator sustains it according to His perfect will and power?

Then you might ask, how then can God's will be thwarted if He's infinite in power?

Consider that God created man in His image and likeness.

If the story is true, then there are some very very interesting things going on, and we have an incredible opportunity to be a part of it.

There will be a new heaven and a new earth.

@rajk999 said
Maybe it is part of a bet made with Satan, who knows. Hey God, I bet I can make your new creation sin and worship me instead of you ... . Like the Job story where Satan wanted to test Jobs loyalty and faith and God allowed it. This is why I gravitate to the likelihood that there are millions of human or human-like species all over the universe and we are simply paw ...[text shortened]... d death are just small in comparison to the big picture, and our time of 70 yrs is nothing for them.

I find no edification or comfort in the Book of Job. The only sane response to such a God is fear and abject submission.

@moonbus said
I find no edification or comfort in the Book of Job. The only sane response to such a God is fear and abject submission.

Psalm 19:9a

The fear of the LORD is clean,..

"Clean" moonbus. Consider that.