The Agenda

@bigdoggproblem said
There are some here ... who would like nothing more than to discredit the faith of others ... where, if, they had any intellectual honesty, would ...

" ... where, if, they had any intellectual honesty, would ..." contend for the faith.

Who is it you think is here to "discredit the faith" of others?

What do you think "the faith" is?

@secondson said
Who is it you think is here to "discredit the faith" of others?

Oh the irony.

@secondson said
What do you think "the faith" is?

For many here it seems to be the partisan acceptance of man-made or at best man-interpreted dogma, some of which is risible fire-branded generational religious hokum, and other is frankly the most horrendous fear based lord-it-over-the-laity apocalyptic terrorism.

@divegeester said
For many here it seems to be the partisan acceptance of man-made or at best man-interpreted dogma, some of which is risible fire-branded generational religious hokum, and other is frankly the most horrendous fear based lord-it-over-the-laity apocalyptic terrorism.

Is that what you think "the faith" is?

@secondson said
Is that what you think "the faith" is?

No. Why don’t you say what you think “the faith” is and then myself and others can tell you if we agree with you?

@divegeester said
No. Why don’t you say what you think “the faith” is and then myself and others can tell you if we agree with you?

I knew you would say that. After all I've posted in defense of the gospel of Jesus Christ you still don't know what "the faith" is.

No problem. I never grow weary of proclaiming the good news.

WHAT "the faith" is is incapsulated within the whole body of the scriptures. That's only a big picture generalization.

To be specific I would suggest you meditate on one particular verse and build on that from the rest of scripture. Then you will understand what "the faith" is. If you still don't "see" it, then perhaps you should question whether or not, in your current condition, you ever will.

Galatians 2:20,21
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Take note of what Paul says in verse 20. The life he now lives is by "the faith" OF the Son of God.

It's a key verse. It is a central tenet of "the faith". The inference is that it is by Jesus' faith that we live. Otherwise there'd be no "faith" to live by.

There are many other verses from which it can be extrapolated what "the faith" is, by comparing scripture with scripture to draw a clear conclusion, and establish the doctrine of "the faith".

Is there any wonder why Paul warns believers in 2 Corinthians 13:5 to "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"

Take not also Colossians 1:27
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

"Which is Christ in you". And on and on it goes. "The faith".

Take note also that the three verses I referenced speak of "Christ in you". "The faith", His "faith", "Christ in you". Core truths of "the faith".

Are you prepared to biblically and scripturally defend "the faith"?

Or do what else here?

Can I be any clearer?

@secondson said
I knew you would say that. After all I've posted in defense of the gospel of Jesus Christ you still don't know what "the faith" is.

No problem. I never grow weary of proclaiming the good news.

WHAT "the faith" is is incapsulated within the whole body of the scriptures. That's only a big picture generalization.

To be specific I would suggest you meditate on one part ...[text shortened]... o biblically and scripturally defend "the faith"?

Or do what else here?

Can I be any clearer?

Its crystal clear, thank you. You are a mouth worshiper, promoting and defending a dead faith, that leads to eternal damnation. What you promote is the gospel of Satan and has nothing to do with Jesus Christ. Your doctrine leads to death

The faith of the elect of God, the sheep of Christ, is obedience to God and Christ. They hear the voice of Christ. They hear Him, they obey His commandments and He gives them eternal life. This is the living faith of Jesus Christ.

Proof that your doctrine is not of Christ is that you can find nowhere that Jesus said any of your professed faith.... NONE. What you have is a cherrypicking of the teachings of Paul. Had you taken Paul in its entirety you would see that obedience to the commandments and charity is the key to eternal life, and is the true doctrine of Christ.

@rajk999 said
What you promote is the gospel of Satan and has nothing to do with Jesus Christ.

Ya right! I took the verses I quoted in my post above straight out of the book in the Bible titled "The Gospel of Satan".

Have you read Hebrews 11 lately? Nowhere in that chapter do I find any of the language you use to describe how one obtains righteousness and eternal life.

You remind me of the story of Cain and Abel. By faith Abel offered the sacrifice (the substitutionary death of an innocent animal) required of God, which God accepted, but Cain offered the fruit of his own labor, and when he saw that God was not pleased he became angry and murdered his brother.

For righteousness, which is imputed and necessary for entrance into the kingdom of God, the believer must come to the cross empty handed, and by faith trust in the sacrifice of God's own Son for the forgiveness of sin.

That, Rajk, is the heart of the gospel of Jesus Christ. One must repent and turn to Christ. There is no other way to be saved.

By adding the requirement of keeping the law and doing good works to obtain eternal life is saying the cross of Jesus isn't good enough.

Like Cain, who by the way isn't mentioned in Hebrews 11, you think your good works and obedience to the law should earn you God's approval and the bestowing of the reward of eternal life.

Eternal life isn't a reward, it's a free gift of God's grace obtained through faith and not of works.

None of the above means that one can live like hell. Jesus said "if you love me you will obey me". Every born again Christian seeks to do just that to the best of their ability, but if we sin, and we surely will, we have an advocate making intercession on our behalf. We confess our sin and He is faithful and just to forgive.

But those that pay lip service and live continuously in an unrepentant sinful lifestyle are in jeopardy of the loss of eternal life, which is a clear indication they were never saved to begin with.

@fmf said
Will SecondSon tackle what Rajk999 has said or just deflect?

Are you getting impatient FMF?

@secondson said
Are you getting impatient FMF?

Just asking onlookers a rhetorical question. You can take as long as you want over your response to Rajk999.

@secondson said
Eternal life isn't a reward, it's a free gift of God's grace obtained through faith and not of works.

What happens - with regard to one's "eternal life" - if there are no "works"?

@secondson said
That, Rajk, is the heart of the gospel of Jesus Christ. One must repent and turn to Christ. There is no other way to be saved.

Does to "turn to Christ" mean there is an obligation to obey his commandments and do 'good works'?

@fmf said
What happens - with regard to one's "eternal life" - if there are no "works"?

I guess that might depend on what you mean by "works".

Is it a "work" to keep the commandments? Or is that simply an act of obedience without reward?

Or is a "work" something beyond mere obedience that has a reward attached to it?

Either way grace is unmerited favor, which cannot be earned, like eternal life, which is not a reward, it is a gift of God's grace.

Rewards for good works, and the gift of God's grace, are mutually exclusive concepts. To confuse the two would be like mixing water and oil.

@secondson said
I guess that might depend on what you mean by "works".

What about the way Rajk999 has used the Bible to define "works" over and over and over and over and over again, only to have the likes of you, sonship and KellyJay brush past it or blank it out over and over and over again? If what I mean by 'works" is that, what's your answer?