13 Dec 11
Originally posted by AgergMy dear Agerg, is this thread about your well justified concern about a stereotype of an atheist, which you rightfully reject or an attempt on your part to build up an obnoxious stereotype of a theist, which you describe as " fundy or fundamentalist christians or fundamentalist followers of other religions " ? By definition, a theist is a believer in a God or Gods. He/she may or may not follow any religion, he/she may be or may not be a " fundie ". True, many organised religions ( not Hinduism which is what I follow ) have been guilty of bloodshed of followers of other religions, Hinduism was guilty of the condemnable practice of casteism, yet we must not build up a stereotype of a theist based on the malpractices of this or that religion.
Take all the fundy Christians in this forum along with people like rvsakhadeo (who may or may not be a fundamentalist in whatever religion he follows), take the union of all their stereotypes of atheists and I'm sure the set of traits I listed in the OP is a proper subset of that union.
My purpose was to tease out some reasoning (if such extends beyond what ...[text shortened]... hadeo was generous enough to provide his rationale I responded in kind with a lengthy response.
13 Dec 11
Originally posted by Agergso you post a hateful characterization of atheists that no decent person would make, you admit the fundies would say something like that then ask theists (which include myself) and rvsakhadeo in particular (who has proven open and very unlike the nutjob dasa) to comment?
Take all the fundy Christians in this forum along with people like rvsakhadeo (who may or may not be a fundamentalist in whatever religion he follows), take the union of all their stereotypes of atheists and I'm sure the set of traits I listed in the OP is a proper subset of that union.
My purpose was to tease out some reasoning (if such extends beyond what ...[text shortened]... hadeo was generous enough to provide his rationale I responded in kind with a lengthy response.
don't you believe it is a bit unfair?
i shouldn't be too hard on you though, it is a common mistake to use fanatical nutjobs whenever one argues over the "evils" of religion. probably because if you throw liberal theists in the mix, you realize your argument reduces to "well you don't know for sure that god exists" and you lose all that yummy "you won't give your daughter a blood transfusion" and "you believe in a 6000 year old earth" stuff that atheists use (granted, for good reason) to mock religion.
theists don't like fundies. theists don't like to be associated with fundies. theists don't like their belief system to be ridiculed because some crazy nutjob refuses to see scientific facts.
i know you are a decent debater. if you want to mock fundies (though i wonder why you would, it's like throwing rocks at a wall) do so. but leave the other theists out of it.
15 Dec 11
2 edits
Originally posted by ZahlanziWell it was actually rvsakhadeo who kicked this one off by asserting (in so many words) that we atheists are emotionless automations bent upon a communist world leadership and sapping from this earth every ounce of happiness that there is.
so you post a hateful characterization of atheists that no decent person would make, you admit the fundies would say something like that then ask theists (which include myself) and rvsakhadeo in particular (who has proven open and very unlike the nutjob dasa) to comment?
don't you believe it is a bit unfair?
i shouldn't be too hard on you though, it i t's like throwing rocks at a wall) do so. but leave the other theists out of it.
True, I should have been more discerning and I apologise for throwing you (implicitly) into the mix here. However there aren't so many moderate theists around this forum these days (I wish there were - I'm well practiced with the standard arguments against zealots) and moreover, though what I said is certainly true for the fundies, when we factor in the likes of Suzianne (who insists she isn't a fundy yet holds some pretty wacky beliefs anyway and a strongly negative stance towards atheists), and then rvsakhadeo who inspired me to post this thread, and surely others it doesn't seem so clear cut as to who does and who doesn't harbour an unfair prejudice against us non-believers (in any god or gods).
16 Dec 11
Originally posted by Agergan attempt on your part to build up an obnoxious stereotype of a theist,
Well it was actually rvsakhadeo who kicked this one off by asserting (in so many words) that we atheists are emotionless automations bent upon a communist world leadership and sapping from this earth every ounce of happiness that there is.
True, I should have been more discerning and I apologise for throwing you (implicitly) into the mix here. However there ...[text shortened]... and who doesn't harbour an unfair prejudice against us non-believers (in any god or gods).
fess up Agers my son, is this true?
16 Dec 11
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe "stereotype" against fundies is demonstrable, and exceptions are few and far between; as for the small minority of theists on this forum that don't fall into the religious fundamentalist category, some of them are still heavily prejudiced against atheists and so should wear the same stereotype.
an attempt on your part to build up an obnoxious stereotype of a theist,
fess up Agers my son, is this true?
Those that fit neither category above I have to concede are taking flak they don't deserve.
16 Dec 11
Originally posted by AgergMy "'poorly veiled' negative stance towards atheists in general" is only a mirror of atheists' "poorly veiled" negative stance towards believers in general.
I neither said nor even implied that *all* of you are fundamentalists. Or if I did, please demonstrate this is so.
On the other hand I find it difficult to divorce you from those of a fundamentalist mentality given what you believe about some great cataclysmic battle that will be waged between Jesus and the minions of hell (and their lackeys - presumably at ...[text shortened]... int within your lifetime, or your "poorly veiled" negative stance towards athiests in general.
My statement about you must think all Christians are fundamentalists comes from your general belief that ANYthing we believe is a "fairy tale".
16 Dec 11
Originally posted by AgergIt seems to me that you harbor an unfair prejudice against us believers.
Well it was actually rvsakhadeo who kicked this one off by asserting (in so many words) that we atheists are emotionless automations bent upon a communist world leadership and sapping from this earth every ounce of happiness that there is.
True, I should have been more discerning and I apologise for throwing you (implicitly) into the mix here. However there ...[text shortened]... and who doesn't harbour an unfair prejudice against us non-believers (in any god or gods).
16 Dec 11
Originally posted by Agergi would like a quote from him saying that. (just for my curiosity, has no relevance towards our argument).
Well it was actually rvsakhadeo who kicked this one off by asserting (in so many words) that we atheists are emotionless automations bent upon a communist world leadership and sapping from this earth every ounce of happiness that there is.
True, I should have been more discerning and I apologise for throwing you (implicitly) into the mix here. However there ...[text shortened]... and who doesn't harbour an unfair prejudice against us non-believers (in any god or gods).
"However there aren't so many moderate theists around this forum these days "
they all left. my guess (speaking from personal experience) is that it is really tiring to see atheists (and liberal theists like myself) explain evolution to numb-nuts over and over again, to try and debate with dasa (people still try to do that, it's similar to people hitting themselves in the balls with a hammer hoping that if they persevere, on the nth hit they will feel joy instead of pain), to see people calling each others names and, to some extent, see atheists ridicule what amounts to a philosophical system really.
there is no fun to be had in the forums anymore. the atheists who don't try to show their superior intelect(to prove you are smarter than dasa is quite easy to achieve and a sad victory) have left, the moderate theists have left. debates forum is riddled with politics, general forum is riddled with nonsense, and science forum is not really a debate forum.
Suzianne
she is a fundy. thats a fact. anyone who believes a world wide flood happened is a fundy. (suzi, feel free to smack me over the head if you don't believe in the flood, i will apologise)
"it doesn't seem so clear cut as to who does and who doesn't harbour an unfair prejudice against us non-believers"
so to assign something like the original post to a whole category of people just because it isn't so "clear cut" is the sensible thing to do?
i did this whole exchange between us just because i thought you were one of the more sensible atheists and i enjoy our debates. i don't want that to change so i asked for clarifications.