30 Nov 06
Originally posted by ckoh1965I will assume that you want to know, although I feel you just want to make fun.
Allah said so?..... And who was the person who heard him said so?
We are hear talking about Quran, and muslims belive that Quran is the word of Quran, so when we read Quran then Allah is speaking, and we listen to him.
You don't like that logic of course !!!1
The the Quran given to us from the Prophet Mohammed contian a verse that say this text will never will be modified because the auther will save it. Then what the auther said remain true for 1400 years. The prophet claim that the auther is Allah. Now when you come today and realize this. Isn't that a enough reason make you belive the Prophet that this text was from GOD.
How can the prophet,if he is the auther, to make such a challange and no one manage to break it.
I don't excpect you to accept that. But I hope you can give me a reasonable answer.
30 Nov 06
Originally posted by ahosyneyYou don't have to be defensive. I'm trying to figure it out sensibly. I think to believe that the contents of the Koran came from God in total reliance of the testimony of its author is sheer folly.
I will assume that you want to know, although I feel you just want to make fun.
We are hear talking about Quran, and muslims belive that Quran is the word of Quran, so when we read Quran then Allah is speaking, and we listen to him.
You don't like that logic of course !!!1
The the Quran given to us from the Prophet Mohammed contian a verse that say ...[text shortened]... ak it.
I don't excpect you to accept that. But I hope you can give me a reasonable answer.
As far as I am concerned, the fact that the original text has been preserved all these years is no evidence that they came from Allah. Moreover, just because the Koran hasn't been altered up to now doesn't mean that it can't happen tomorrow. It all depends on how careful the authority is in preserving the text. The Koran has been translated into other languages too.
For example, in the case of the Bible, it has been translated into so many languages; and I suspect that somewhere in the process some words might have been lost or modified. Some words might have remained by lost their emphasis through the translation process.
Now I am aware that these holy books are subject to many interpretations. In my country there are some Muslim people who came up with their own teaching based on the Koran. And yet, they also insist that they are Muslims. But the government quickly issued a fatwa and stopped their teaching from spreading. If the government had just allowed these people to continue, then we would probably find another version of the Koran today.
Unfortunately, the same can't be said of Christians. Today in my country alone, we have the Chatolics, Anglicans, Protestants, True Jesus Church, Jehovah's Witnesses and a host of others who all claim that they based their teachings on the Bible.
But I am looking beyond the Koran and the Bible. I am also looking far beyond the authors. I don't really care what the authors claim. They can say whatever they like. If I want to sell a book, I might say I write about the life of Britney Spears and claim that it all came from her. Then I can even explain in detail about her idiotic 55-hour marriage, or her record-breaking 2-year old marriage (that is an achievement, by the way). But at the end of it all, Britney can come forward to confirm if the contents are true or not. Well, as far as I am concerned, Allah (God) hasn't confirmed that the contents of the Koran/Bible came from him.
30 Nov 06
1 edit
Originally posted by ckoh1965What confirmation do you excpect? how do you want him to confirm it to you? I really want to know.
You don't have to be defensive. I'm trying to figure it out sensibly. I think to believe that the contents of the Koran came from God in total reliance of the testimony of its author is sheer folly.
As far as I am concerned, the fact that the original text has been preserved all these years is no evidence that they came from Allah. Moreover, just becaus erned, Allah (God) hasn't confirmed that the contents of the Koran/Bible came from him.
30 Nov 06
Originally posted by ahosyneyNever mind how I want God to confirm. All I am saying is that your belief is based on something that hasn't been confirmed. Your belief is based on faith. It is that faith that I don't have, you see. If God can appear in person to confirm the contents of the holy book, then it would be best. But I don't expect it to happen.
What confirmation do you excpect? how do you want him to confirm it to you? I really want to know.
30 Nov 06
Originally posted by ckoh1965Go to the Quran thread I talked about my belives there in details.
Never mind how I want God to confirm. All I am saying is that your belief is based on something that hasn't been confirmed. Your belief is based on faith. It is that faith that I don't have, you see. If God can appear in person to confirm the contents of the holy book, then it would be best. But I don't expect it to happen.
Muslim faith is not a blind faith. I learned to prove every part of my faith logicly before refereing to Quran or Hadith. So there is nothing called unconfirmed for a Muslim.
GOD will not appear to you, that why it is called faith. But he gave clues.
He gave you a book and told you if you don't belive then find a mistake in it. He told you that this book will never change. And he told you that is the sign it is from me. So you have to use your mind and think if that is enough to belive that it is really the word of GOD or not.
Let me ask you a question: You attacked Islam and Quran several times, did you read Quran even once?
Note: You talked before about translations of Quran. Translation are not Quran. You can't use them in prayer for example. Quran is only in Arabic. Translation just helping to understand the meaning of Quran. But all Muslims use Arabic in prayer. Some non Arabic speaking even memorize the Quran in Arabic although they don't speak arabic.
30 Nov 06
This has strayed off-topic quite a bit!
Obviously, if you believe in a watered-down strain of Christianity that places traditional Biblical teaching far down on it's scale of importance, then whether the Bible says a) or b) is utterly irrelevant. As is the integrity of The Book, if you choose to ignore it. I have no point of reference with you because the whole thread concerns the integrity (or total lack thereof) of the Bible.
But then, I personally wouldn't class anyone who dis-regards the importance of the Bible & it's teachings a Christian in the strictest sense anyhow!
Maybe some kind of fashionable cult or something, but not orthodox Christian.
30 Nov 06
Originally posted by blakbuzzrdYour answer to #2 is not an answer, but rather an assertion. The statement that "the language has no effect" is never, ever true, in any context.
Your answer to #1 is based on both inductive reasoning and hearsay and therefore unverifiable.
Your answer to #2 is not an answer, but rather an assertion. The statement that "the language has no effect" is never, ever true, in any context.
Regarding #3, you believe that Muslims act as recorders. Again, though, that's inductive hearsay. In actual f ...[text shortened]... ou appear to be taking a confessional approach. Never the twain shall meet, I'm afraid.
I forgot to mention this:
Many non Arabic speaking muslims who don't know how to speak arabic at all memorize the Quran in Arabic. They memorize it the same way Arabic speakers do.
Do you think the language has any effect?
I have seen a six years old girl who don't know Arabic. She only speaks Farsi, but she memorize the Quran, not only that, but also memorize the page numbers and the location of each word, all in Arabic.
Do you think this is possible for any normal book of the same size.
30 Nov 06
Originally posted by ahosyneyUnfortunately, I have to admit that I have never read the Quran. I tried to read once, but soon had to give up, because I don't speak Arabic. There is very limited translation into our local language. But even then, of course that is not an excuse not to read.
Go to the Quran thread I talked about my belives there in details.
Muslim faith is not a blind faith. I learned to prove every part of my faith logicly before refereing to Quran or Hadith. So there is nothing called unconfirmed for a Muslim.
GOD will not appear to you, that why it is called faith. But he gave clues.
He gave you a book and told yo ...[text shortened]... Some non Arabic speaking even memorize the Quran in Arabic although they don't speak arabic.
Then you have so many Muslims who claim that they know enough about the Quran, but actually they know nuts! They is one example that has puzzled me for a long time. In our country, the Muslims greet each other with "Assalam mualaikum"... something like that, although I am not sure about the spelling. I think it means some sort of good greetings in Arabic. When I tried using the same greetings, I was told that it is forbidden for non-Muslims to greet this way. So I asked why? They said only Muslims can use this greeting. What a lot of craps. So how does a non-Muslim Arab greet another Arab then?
30 Nov 06
Originally posted by ahosyneyYou'd be surprised what the human brain is capable of doing. Someone once said that the great Einstein used only about 20% of his brain capacity. I really don't know how this was measured, but I find it fascinating.
I have seen a six years old girl who don't know Arabic. She only speaks Farsi, but she memorize the Quran, not only that, but also memorize the page numbers and the location of each word, all in Arabic.
Do you think this is possible for any normal book of the same size.
30 Nov 06
Originally posted by ckoh1965If the follower of message doesn't follow it as they should do, it doesn't mean the problem in the message. It is the problem of the reciver.
Unfortunately, I have to admit that I have never read the Quran. I tried to read once, but soon had to give up, because I don't speak Arabic. There is very limited translation into our local language. But even then, of course that is not an excuse not to read.
Then you have so many Muslims who claim that they know enough about the Quran, but actually the ...[text shortened]... se this greeting. What a lot of craps. So how does a non-Muslim Arab greet another Arab then?
Any way the greating is "Al Salam Alykom"
Al Salam = Peace
Alykom = be Upon you
So it means "Peace be Upon you".
The complete greeting is "Al Salam Alykom Wa Rahmat Allah Wa Barakato"
Wa = and
Rahmat = mercy
Barakat = blessing
So the the complete greeting in English "Peace, be upon you and mercy and blessing of Allah"
It is the used greeting between Muslims. It mean that every Muslim with to the others peace, mercy and blessing from Allah (GOD).
There nothing I know say that non-muslims not allowed to use it. Actually in my country Egypt all use it, Muslims and non-Muslims.
Any way I can give a website that has a translation in English, may be it could help.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/
30 Nov 06
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Originally posted by SquelchbelchYes you are right, sorry for that. But I really didn't mean to do that. Someone tried to direct the thread away from the Bible.
Without meaning to be rude, can you not create a new thread about the Quran, or find another thread that already exists?
Sorry again.
30 Nov 06
Originally posted by ahosyneyI'll bite.
3- The Bible accuse almost every Prophet of adultry, and immorality. Which can't be accepted for prophets. I can argue with you in this point if you don't agree.
Prophets are like other human beings when it comes to the propensity to sin; what matters is not how many times they fall down, but how many times they get back up and look up to the Lord.