The birth of Jesus

Originally posted by vistesd
The progressive dying of the light, and then the lengthening day—

Wait a minute! You know all that. 🙂

How ya doin’, David. Nice to see you hangin’ around again.

Originally posted by Red Night
As societies became agrarian that stopped worshipping the constellation gods of the zodiac and began to worship the one sun god.

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Osiris, Mithras, Ishtar, Saturn, Apollo
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I am seldom clear WHICH one of these myth candidates skepics are saying is MOST like the gospel account of Jesus. It seems rather that by taking SOME aspect of EACH one of them, they hope to have an accumulative effect of saying the Gospels are a copycat myth like all of these combined together. This is the "scatter shot" method by which they hope you'll believe that the resurrection of Jesus was a copycat myth based on a combination of questionable "similarities" to some pagan myths.


Unlike pagan myths refered here the New Testament is loaded with eyewitness testimony and real historical figures. And it is collaborted with several outside sources.

Professor C.S. Lewis was a writer of myths. He commented that the writing of the New Testament did NOT carry the signs of myth creation:

"All I am in private life is a literary critic and historian." said Lewis. And Lewis commented "And I am prepared to say that on that basis that if anyone thinks the Gospels are either legends or novels, then that person is simply showing his incompetence as a liturary critic, I've read a great many novels and I know a fair amount about legends that grew up among early people, and know perfectly well the Gospels are not that kind of stuff"

Christian Reflections, C.S. Lewis, Walter Hooper Editor, (Grand Rapids Mich.: Erdmans 2967, page 209)

The pagan myth theory can't explain the empty tomb. It is weak on explaining the martyrdom of of the eyewitnesses, and the testimony of non-Christian writings.

Ancient non-Christian sources knew that the New Testament was not putting out a mythical account. They earliest Jewish critics and Gentile critics knew that the New Testament was making historical claims rather than making legends or myths. What they disputed was the plausibility of those historic claims.

No Greek or Roman myth spoke of the literal incarnation of a monotheistic God. by way of a literal virgin birth as in (John 1:1-3,14 and Matt. 1:18-25), followed by His death and resurrection.

The Greek and Roman myths did speak of reincarnations into a different mortal body. The charges of copycat imitation of these reincarnation myths by the New Testament are sloppy and presumptive. Jesus is not reported to reincarnate into another being but to resurrect in the same physical body.

The first parallel of "dying and rising" gods does not appear until A.D. 150, more than 100 years after the origin of the Gospel of Christ.

The myth of Osiris predates the Christian gospel. But in this case the Egyptian deity does not actually come back to physical life but is cut into 14 pieces, scattered around Egypt, and via Isis the dismembered Osiris becomes a member of a shadowy underworld.

The comparison between mythic Osiris and the resurrection of Jesus is rather sloppy. Jesus is said to resurrect in glory and seen on the earth before His ascension into heaven.

Norm Giesler writes:

"Finally, even if there are myths about dying and rising gods prior to Christianity, that doesn't mean the New Testament writers copied from them. The fictional TV show Star Trek preceded the U.S. Space Shuttle program, but that doesn't mean that newspaper reports of space shuttle missions are influenced by Star Trek episodes! "

[I Don't Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist, Norm Giesler & Frank Turek, Crossways Books, pg. 312]

Does the poster have any historical witnesses corroborating evidence to the historicity of the "resurrection" of Osiris?

Does the poster have historical witnesses for any of the other pagan myths suggested as models for the New Testament?

For the New Testament resurrection of Jesus I submit the eyewitness testimony of Matthew, Mark, John, and Paul as having encoutered a resurrected Jesus Christ.

What historical names will the poster privide us with as testimony to
the historicity alleged coming back to life of Osiris, Mithras, Ishtar, Saturn, and Apollo? Who do you point to as claiming to have witnessed these events? Give us names.

Provide for us a ancient statment of this calliber of witness attestation:

" For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of that One's majesty.

For He received from God the Father honor and glory, a voice such as this being borne to Him by the nagnificant glory:

This is My Son, My Beloved, in whom I delight.

And this voice we heard being borne out of heaven while we were with Him in the holy mountain" (2 Peter 1:16-18)

Peter says that the disciples did not follow cleverly devised myths concerning Jesus Christ. Show us an equivalent admission concerning one each of the pagan myths you proposed.

Or can you find an equivalent statement such as we see in Paul's first letter to the Corinthians that the resurrected Christ appeared to 500 witnesses, most of which were still alive, to confirm to the church in Corinth the veracity of Paul's teaching that Jesus rose?

See First Corinthians 15:5,6

"And that He [Jesus] was buried, and that He has been raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.

And that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve; Then He appeared to over five hundred brothers at one time, of whom the majority remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; Then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles;

And last of all He appeared to me also, as to one born prematurely."