Spirituality
20 Aug 09
24 Aug 09
the early mormons believed in christian socialism. under what was called the law of consecration the united order was instituted. the members gave all their worldly possessions to the church and the local bishop parceled it back out ( but not in equal shares as the better farmer would get more land than the lazier or less able farmer ). the united order lasted a few years and due to human failings it was ended. the law of tithing was then instituted as a means to support the widow, the poor and the finances of the church.
one of the major problems with the fundamentalist lds sect ( a minority lds sect ) out by the arizona-utah border is that they still practice under the united order and put all wages and property into a trust and the trust was taken over by a non-mormon on a court order ( details not necessary here ) and a non-mormon has been passing out property from the trust to members who have left fdls.
under the oath of consecration when one gives property to the church for the united order one may not claim it back ( hence the court fight when ex-fdls broke their oath and made claim on property already given ).
24 Aug 09
Originally posted by rwingettI agree.
I think Wright got a bum wrap. The only thing people know about him is one sermon taken out of context.
Remember that is was FOX that selected the clips that came to define the character of his sermons. Listen to the whole sermons with some knowledge of the tradition of the Black churches, and some comprehension of the American Jeremiad (that dates to the Puritans--white Calvinists) and Wright appears as American as baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and Chevrolet.
24 Aug 09
..the klan, anti-masonry politcal parties, hatred of the irish and italian immigrants and egomaniacal jingoism is also deeply part of the american culture...wright is a bigot blowing his foghorn diatribe into the ears of the eagerly listening shallow less educated versions of himself...oil sticks to oil...water sticks to water...
24 Aug 09
Originally posted by reinfeldMy point is that the bigotry you speak of is more readily apparent among those calling Wright a bigot than among those shouting amen during his sermons. Criticism of policies often employs hyperbole--even more so when the possibilities of eternal damnation are part of the shared assumptions of the group. The whole debate about Wright has been based upon hyperbole taken as straight talk (if there is such a thing).
..the klan, anti-masonry politcal parties, hatred of the irish and italian immigrants and egomaniacal jingoism is also deeply part of the american culture...wright is a bigot blowing his foghorn diatribe into the ears of the eagerly listening shallow less educated versions of himself...oil sticks to oil...water sticks to water...
Gaza is permanently damned with zero chance of redemption. Too bad, but the sins of the fathers ... (Amos 1:6)
Wright's hyperbole is the very nature of religious discourse. Not all diatribes are jeremiads, but all jeremiads are diatribes, starting with that of Jeremiah (you know right after Isaiah).
25 Aug 09
Originally posted by WulebgrPost of a link so we see this.
I agree.
Remember that is was FOX that selected the clips that came to define the character of his sermons. Listen to the whole sermons with some knowledge of the tradition of the Black churches, and some comprehension of the American Jeremiad (that dates to the Puritans--white Calvinists) and Wright appears as American as baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and Chevrolet.
Kelly
25 Aug 09
Originally posted by KellyJayWhat is it you need linked?
Post of a link so we see this.
Kelly
FOX?
American culture?
Histories of the American Jeremiad since Jonathan Edwards?
Old Chevrolet commercials?
Sometimes I expect that my readers did not just pop out of their mothers, or wake up from a twenty year nap. The discussions of Reverend Wright were everywhere last year--use Google if you cannot remember. My points about the American Jeremiad are a dissertation that I don't have the time to write. Anyone familiar with histories of American preaching can see my point. I'm not here to teach those classes. If you've been asleep for twenty years, the Chevy commercial might be fresh in your memory. Here's a newer version:
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25 Aug 09
Originally posted by WulebgrCareful! I think I saw some wise latina women in that clip - next thing you know...
What is it you need linked?
FOX?
American culture?
Histories of the American Jeremiad since Jonathan Edwards?
Old Chevrolet commercials?
Sometimes I expect that my readers did not just pop out of their mothers, or wake up from a twenty year nap. The discussions of Reverend Wright were everywhere last year--use Google if you cannot remember. My point ...[text shortened]... be fresh in your memory. Here's a newer version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rYXmWY9HY4
28 Aug 09
Originally posted by WulebgrThe link I wanted was something to show he was not as he was
What is it you need linked?
FOX?
American culture?
Histories of the American Jeremiad since Jonathan Edwards?
Old Chevrolet commercials?
Sometimes I expect that my readers did not just pop out of their mothers, or wake up from a twenty year nap. The discussions of Reverend Wright were everywhere last year--use Google if you cannot remember. My point ...[text shortened]... be fresh in your memory. Here's a newer version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rYXmWY9HY4
protrayed. I've seen people taken out of context before and smeared
so I can see how it could happen. I just wanted to see if you could
produce something we all agree with that showed he wasn't like that.
Kelly
28 Aug 09
Originally posted by KellyJayAll the usual "liberal" sources--Huffington Post, CNN, etc.--demonstrated at the time that FOX distorted the man's message. Then Obama distanced himself from his pastor rendering the story moot, except among the extremists that tried to keep it alive.
The link I wanted was something to show he was not as he was
protrayed. I've seen people taken out of context before and smeared
so I can see how it could happen. I just wanted to see if you could
produce something we all agree with that showed he wasn't like that.
Kelly
I base my views not on what some journalist stated, but upon two-three hours watching the sermons in their entirety from which FOX extracted the clips, and upon more than two decades studying American religion, including many books and articles about the so called American Jeremiad--Sacvan Bercovitch's book of this name is a good place to start,--many books and articles about the Black church--one might start with W.E.B. DuBois, The Souls of Black Folk and E. Franklin Frazier, The Negro Church in America,--and, of course, the Old Testament prophets themselves, none of whom would be deemed patriotic if they said about America what they said about Israel.
28 Aug 09
Originally posted by WulebgrIf I'm not mistaken kellyjay wants to be able to watch the sermons in their entirety just as you did. He is asking you to provide links to where he can view them.
All the usual "liberal" sources--Huffington Post, CNN, etc.--demonstrated at the time that FOX distorted the man's message. Then Obama distanced himself from his pastor rendering the story moot, except among the extremists that tried to keep it alive.
I base my views not on what some journalist stated, but upon two-three hours watching the sermons in thei ...[text shortened]... ne of whom would be deemed patriotic if they said about America what they said about Israel.
28 Aug 09
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneIf he cannot figure out how to enter Rev Wright in the search box of YouTube, there's not much that I can do to help.
If I'm not mistaken kellyjay wants to be able to watch the sermons in their entirety just as you did. He is asking you to provide links to where he can view them.
29 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by WulebgrI'm not interested in studing the Black church, I've spent time in
All the usual "liberal" sources--Huffington Post, CNN, etc.--demonstrated at the time that FOX distorted the man's message. Then Obama distanced himself from his pastor rendering the story moot, except among the extremists that tried to keep it alive.
I base my views not on what some journalist stated, but upon two-three hours watching the sermons in thei ne of whom would be deemed patriotic if they said about America what they said about Israel.
them myself and loved every minute of it! I only wanted the sermons
that were supposedly distored by Fox and other people, if anyone were
going to say they did that I'm assuming they could prove it. Calling
people exsteme to destroy their point with nothing else is a sign of
weakness if that is all you got.
Kelly
29 Aug 09
Originally posted by WulebgrI can do that, but I'm not the one who said someone took things
If he cannot figure out how to enter Rev Wright in the search box of YouTube, there's not much that I can do to help.
out of context, I was hoping that could be proven! So I was not
willing to do another's homework to prove their point.
Kelly