The Chosen people

Originally posted by twhitehead
Over in the science forum, I stated that Christianity teaches that the Jews were chosen by God (and I called it racist).
Zahlanzi tells me that this is an old Testament teaching and thus can be dismissed - and implied that it is commonly dismissed by modern Christians, though he didn't really specify and statistics.
Its the first time I am hearing this, so I would like to know whether any Christians here agree with him?

It's been stated well already, but I think the Bible is clear that the Hebrews/Jews were chosen by God from all the peoples of the earth to display his purpose for the whole of humanity. I don't see any disparity between the OT and NT in this issue.

Originally posted by divegeester
It's been stated well already, but I think the Bible is clear that the Hebrews/Jews were chosen by God from all the peoples of the earth to display his purpose for the whole of humanity. I don't see any disparity between the OT and NT in this issue.

so the fact that afterwards christianity is spread to every corner of the world, the notion that everyone can achieve salvation, that all are equal in the eyes of god, all these support the idea of a chosen people?

in the old testament God commanded that all the "unchosen" be put to the sword rather than converted, just to remove any impurities from the chosen people. and you don't see any disparity between that and how the christian faith was spread?

Originally posted by Phranny
Jews strive to be the best they can be in order to leave humanity better off than when they entered the world.

And of course that is why Israel is such a shining example.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
in the old testament God commanded that all the "unchosen" be put to the sword rather than converted, just to remove any impurities from the chosen people.

Scripture please, supporting:

"all the unchosen be put to the sword"

thanks

Originally posted by Phranny
Rather they [Jews] focus their attention on doing what is right here and now on earth.

Really?

Do you have a newspaper or a TV in your house?

Jews do not focus their attention on heavan and hell the way Christians do. Rather they focus their attention on doing what is right here and now on earth. You just do not hear sermons in a temple talking about hevan and hell fire.

I do not disagree with this.

Mainstream evangelical Christianity does talk a lot about Heaven.
Your more liberal social activist demoninations - Ie. Presbyterian are very into "doing to the least of these ..." etc.

And too many organizations founded by evanglicals are along the lines of faith based outreaches of practical "good doing" to the less fortunate.

So it is not entirel y cut and dry.

The New Testament itself portrays ultimate salvation not as going to a happy place. Rather it is being conformed to the image of Christ. In this sense the destination is a Person into whose image the saved are transformed and conformed. We are going to a Person more than going to a place.

The person responsible for most of our dread of hell is the same person from whose mouth the greatest words of mercy and love came forth - Jesus.

From the same mouth came the world's greatest words of comfort AND the world's greatest words of warning. That's why some of us pay close attention.

Originally posted by whodey
Yes and no.

The Bible shows God driving the Hebrews out of the Holy land because of their sin time and time again. However, he always tried to draw them back again unto repentance.

Simply put, the Hebrews have rejected God over, and over, and over again, but he never gave up on them Biblically. Why should we think he has now?

How did he lose
six million Jews ????

Originally posted by divegeester
Scripture please, supporting:

"all the unchosen be put to the sword"

thanks

20 So the people shouted when the priests blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city.
21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.

joshua 6 20-21 KJV



others abound: all people of a different religion were to be killed. mentioned in numerous places. all conquest of canaan was in fact an ethnic cleansing.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
20 So the people shouted when the priests blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city.
21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the cit ...[text shortened]... e repentant seven opportunities at least to [b]leave the place where judgment was about to fall.

[/b] Why do you think God told Joshua to circle the city once each of seven days ? And then the army was to circle the city seven times on the last day.

So each day the sinners from Jericho could look over the wall and see the army of Joshua parading once around the city and withdraw. I think God was giving the repentant seven opportunities at least to leave the place where judgment was about to fall.

Originally posted by sonship
Why do you think God told Joshua to circle the city once each of seven days ? And then the army was to circle the city seven times on the last day.

So each day the sinners from Jericho could look over the wall and see the army of Joshua parading once around the city and withdraw. I think God was giving the repentant seven opportunities at least to leave the place where judgment was about to fall.[/b]

yeh, an invading army is surrounding a city, and graciously allows the people in it 7 days to abandon everything they owned, all their livelyhoods, leave their country behind and go be nomads. and i say people because really every man woman and child would have had to leave as we know god commanded joshua to kill everyone of a different religion in canaan.

so yeah, in conclusion, god's and joshua's mercy knows no bounds.




my post could be rewritten by answering your first question: "Why do you think God told Joshua to circle the city once each of seven days ?" I don't.

this is a simpler post, no need for further explanation.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
20 So the people shouted when the priests blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city.
21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the cit ...[text shortened]... e killed. mentioned in numerous places. all conquest of canaan was in fact an ethnic cleansing.

You interpret these verses the same way that Muslims do when they spread their religion by conquering with the sword. Christians follow Christ's will of spreading His gospel by His words and through baptism. However, we believe it is also His will that we defend ourselves and our property with the sword as part of His words.

God had given the land that these Pagans inhabited to the Israelites and the Pagans were give 6 days to surrender or leave and they refused, so God caused their defenses to crumble and fall.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
20 So the people shouted when the priests blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city.
21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the cit ...[text shortened]... e killed. mentioned in numerous places. all conquest of canaan was in fact an ethnic cleansing.

This is not "all unchosen will be put to the sword" is it. This is a group of individuals being put to the sword in a particular battle. Yes in many ancient battles victory was assured by killing all of the enemy. But this is not supporting what you claim.

Can you provide scripture which supports the premise "all unchosen will be put to the sword"

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
20 So the people shouted when the priests blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city.
21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the cit ...[text shortened]... e killed. mentioned in numerous places. all conquest of canaan was in fact an ethnic cleansing.

I'm curious are you theist, christian, or what?

Originally posted by RJHinds
You interpret these verses the same way that Muslims do when they spread their religion by conquering with the sword. Christians follow Christ's will of spreading His gospel by His words and through baptism. However, we believe it is also His will that we defend ourselves and our property with the sword as part of His words.

God had given the land tha ...[text shortened]... days to surrender or leave and they refused, so God caused their defenses to crumble and fall.

you have quite a different notion of property than a normal person.

god, as in a third party, "gave" the property of canaanites to israelits. kind of like americans gave the property of native americans to other americans.


"God had given the land that these Pagans inhabited to the Israelites and the Pagans were give 6 days to surrender or leave and they refused, so God caused their defenses to crumble and fall."
an invading army graciously allowed the rightful owners of a land to give it up and then go die a slow and agonizing death into the desert rather than be put to the sword. by an invading army.

Originally posted by divegeester
I'm curious are you theist, christian, or what?

i am a theist who believes jesus is god's son. i believe that would be a fair description of what i roughly am